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  1. #21
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I like to spend quite a bit of time alone, but I never have the feeling that it's quite the same as when introverts do it. It doesn't usually (unless I'm specifically meditating or praying) have that 'calm, recharging' quality to it.
    My 'time alone' never has a 'calm, recharging' quality to it. In fact, I'd say it's much more active, physically and mentally, than my time with other people. Other people cramp my thinking and existing space rather than be conductive to it (as opposed to extroverts).

    The reason why ENPs will probably seem quite introverted is because though they need stimulation they have a habit of creating their own, rather than going out and looking for it.

    And I guess it didn't make much sense to put something in a list that was really being measured on two axes. Here's an attempt at a graph:

    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #22
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Clip.
    Hmm, I bet the most intelligent introvert is smarter than the most intelligent extrovert, regarding abstractions, but, um, I dunno.

    I am a "HSP", and I am extroverted, also, I know a lot of relatively "stupid" introverts.

    I am super sensitive to stimuli, but I am also a stimulus whore, it makes no sense, I tell ya!!
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  3. #23
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Hap, wtf?!?!?!

    That graph is silly.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #24
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Hap, wtf?!?!?!

    That graph is silly.
    *shrug*

    Really, the order isn't important. The point is that being I or E in terms of MBTI is only one of the factors on how extroverted someone is or is perceived to be.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #25
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Hap, can you explain more what the difference is between cooperative and energy?
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  6. #26
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Hap, can you explain more what the difference is between cooperative and energy?
    Cooperative = drive to cooperate

    Energy = drive to expend energy

    Going to a PTA meeting is cooperative. Going skydiving is energy. Going to a crazy fratboy party is both, while reading a book is neither.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #27
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Cooperative = drive to cooperate

    Energy = drive to expend energy

    Going to a PTA meeting is cooperative. Going skydiving is energy. Going to a crazy fratboy party is both, while reading a book is neither.
    That's brilliant. You have such an awesome way of explaining things, you should be like....a professional explainer or something.

    So, according to your graph, I'm a lot more likely to want to go skydiving than a PTA meeting or a fratboy party. And reading a book would probably be my second choice. Right? Or am I mixed up again?
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  8. #28
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    That's brilliant. You have such an awesome way of explaining things, you should be like....a professional explainer or something.

    So, according to your graph, I'm a lot more likely to want to go skydiving than a PTA meeting or a fratboy party. And reading a book would probably be my second choice. Right? Or am I mixed up again?
    A wild guess would be the order would be skydiving, frat party, book, PTA meeting. Not so sure about the last two.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #29
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    A wild guess would be the order would be skydiving, frat party, book, PTA meeting. Not so sure about the last two.
    If it was a book on something I was really interested in I would definitely put it 2nd.

    As for frat party vs PTA meeting, well the only thing that would appeal to me about either would be the women, so...

    young hotties vs MILFs....that's a dilemma that has confounded man for centuries.
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  10. #30
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    What SDM said. I can run on E-Ne-rgy forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever....

    and just when I think I'm running out, some secret stash seems to get activated.

    as long as there's something to interact with, I can interact indefinitely. It doesn't have to be people though, but people are the biggest mine of inspiration I can think of.

    I'm WAY more extraverted than my mom though, who is ESFJ. She's more of a people-person than I am but in the sense of pure extraversion I'm a hundred times 'worse' than her. She can be all people-person-y but then she always needs to go home to her own space where things are her own way etc, and when she does her tasks she prefers to do them alone. If someone comes up and starts to chat with her while she's doing the laundry she'll be happy to chat and pleased to see them, but she wants to bustle them off all the same cos she can't get on with things while people are around. Maybe that's related to my pure extraversion, in that as long as they're around she can't focus on the task at hand, but I think it's more just that she actually does like doing these tasks, and doing them alone. She's said before that it's when she "clears her head out". She does get tired too, after say a dinner party or whatever, whereas I never do. After a party I feel like I'm ready to conquer the world.
    ESFJ=Sanguine Melancholy; ENTP=Sanguine Choleric (even type as 7w8 a lot, I see). One part Melancholy will be as you described (socially very outgoing, but still need their own space), while the other as a mixture of Sanguine and Choleric is very outgoing, particularly as kids, but then perhaps get more into their own heads as adults.
    edit - though the theory in the OP seems consistent enough in itself (like BW's theories lol), it doesn't seem to really bear out reality as I've experienced it. Most EJ's I've known have liked being around people but generally don't tend to invite them back home very often - they go to work, go to school, college, church, bars - whatever - and get their people fix but seem to treat their home as a sort of private space. My guess is that it could be the J thing meaning that because they like their routinese and habits and things being 'a certain way', and because they know they can't realistically force these on the entire world or get the whole world to accommodate these preferences, that's why they like to keep their homes as a sort of space where they CAN indulge all these things, and prefer to keep people away from them as much as reasonable and polite, cos then they'd have to start 'flexing' at home, something that might be difficult or stressful. Perhaps.

    Meanwhile EP's I think are the most extraverted, being the types I've seen exhibit the most hyperactive type behaviour, which I reckon results from the simple fact that we're so extremely plugged in and engaged and energized by the external world that for as long as we can keep any of our senses conscious, we're being stimulated and loving it. EP's are the people I know with the most sort of 'open house' type lives, where not only do they go out in search of stimulation but happily invite it home too, and spend very little time actually alone because they can never turn away stimulation. Maybe ExFP's more so with the human company, and ExTP's more so with just 'stuff' like say, bringing work home.
    It's like the 16 types consist of two temperament matrices overlaid, and the temperament matrices consist of axes of "expressed" and "wanted" behavior. (FIRO terms). Expressed behavior is what we normally think of as 'extraversion", yet that is only what we "say we want", while wanted behavior is what we "really want". This would be basically covered by the "role-directive/informative" factor. The temperament matrices basically cover social skills, and action skills. For "action", expressive would be pragmatic vs. cooperative, and wanted would be another axis called Structure vs motive. J will indicate either directing or structure, while P is informing or motive. (T and F, likewise). Another term for "informing" and "motive" is "responsive", so those who respond to people will seem in some respects like extraverts (regardless of how tmuch they express), while those less responsive will be more into their own personal space, even if they express to people. Hence, the EJ behavior you mentioned. So yes; the EP's would be the most all around extroverted.
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