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  1. #11
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    She didn't say it was the rule, just a guideline that the average seems to follow.
    I see.

    ENFPs do seem more introverted than most extroverts.

    But more introverted than ISFPs, ISTjs, and ISTPs? I doubt it.


    Also, yeah sure N types may need less sensory stimulus but at what point does it start to drain them? Isn't that what matters with introverstion/extroversion? My ENFP brother may not need much sensory stimulus but he seeks it way more than I do. I get drained much faster around people and heavy duty sensory stimulus (concerts, etc.)

    ETA: Just to make it clear, I don't think that just because it's like that with me and my brother that all ENFPs are more extroverted than all introverted sensors, I was just using it as one example to go along with my hunch.
    Last edited by Sunshine; 08-10-2008 at 01:46 PM.

  2. #12
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    I see.

    ENFPs do seem more introverted than most extroverts.

    But more introverted than ISFPs, ISTjs, and ISTPs? I doubt it.


    Also, yeah sure N types may need less sensory stimulus but at what point does it start to drain them? Isn't that what matters with introverstion/extroversion? My ENFP brother may not need much sensory stimulus but he seeks it way more than I do. I get drained much faster around people and heavy duty sensory stimulus (concerts, etc.)
    i would actaully say that YES ISTJs ISFPs and ISTPs can appear more extroverted than ENFPs ON THE WHOLE without a doubt.

    sure, there will be those ENFP moments when you CLEARLY see the ENFP out socializing the ISTJ, ISFP, ISTP. However, over the course of months, years etc...the the ISTJ/FP/TP all will be more likely to be "going out" and "doing stuff" and will appear more extroverted...
    and i think the ENTP being introverted is another GREAT call. YES, there ARE some ENTPs who are as crazy as a stereotypical celebrity ENFP. However, most people i that thought were ENTPs, were actaully ENTJs...i think the true ENTPs ended up being much more introverted than most realize.

    a good example is Jim Carry vs Jim from the Office. Both can come off has maybe having Ne. A lot of pretty 'qualified' people (i know, how do you mean qualified... idk) type Jim carry as ENTJ (not ENTP) and type Jim from the Office as ENTP (and not an introvert)

    i think haphazard NAILED it. especially ENFPs ENTPs...they are very often atypical extroverts.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    ENXPs at what point do being around people and having your senses stimulated drain you?

    Same question to ISXXs.

  4. #14
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    ENXPs at what point do being around people and having your senses stimulated drain you?

    Same question to ISXXs.
    It's usually some bend in the conversation which reminds me that other people are actually accomplishing things when they're not around me, and I get the urge to retreat and spend some "me"-time.

    If that doesn't happen, I can usually hang out till I'm too physically exhausted to hang out anymore... like, literally, my features become crazy-distorted from fatigue and I can't even focus on trying to focus.
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  5. #15
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    ESFJ
    ESFP
    ESTJ
    ESTP
    ISFJ
    ENFJ
    ISFP
    ENTJ
    ISTJ
    ISTP
    ENFP
    INFJ
    ENTP
    INFP
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    INTP
    What definitions of extroversion and introversion are you using?

    Social inclination vs. social deficiency?
    Even that's not an absolute...

    It's not even predictable.
    we fukin won boys

  6. #16
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    What definitions of extroversion and introversion are you using?

    Social inclination vs. social deficiency?
    Even that's not an absolute...

    It's not even predictable.
    It's how much energy for pursuit someone has along with how willing they are to dedicate this energy socially.

    It's not a perfect list. It's a guess, based on theory and observation.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #17
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I find your theory very sound and well developed.

    I assumed such a approach for myself, when I was constantly switching between iNTp and eNTp. I came to the conclusion that it is Ne, what then can bend the person's behaviour towards society by nature; between outlived insanity or inert weighting of reaction strategies to different accumulated information (because otherwise they think you're mad).

  8. #18
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    What SDM said. I can run on E-Ne-rgy forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever....

    and just when I think I'm running out, some secret stash seems to get activated.

    as long as there's something to interact with, I can interact indefinitely. It doesn't have to be people though, but people are the biggest mine of inspiration I can think of.

    I'm WAY more extraverted than my mom though, who is ESFJ. She's more of a people-person than I am but in the sense of pure extraversion I'm a hundred times 'worse' than her. She can be all people-person-y but then she always needs to go home to her own space where things are her own way etc, and when she does her tasks she prefers to do them alone. If someone comes up and starts to chat with her while she's doing the laundry she'll be happy to chat and pleased to see them, but she wants to bustle them off all the same cos she can't get on with things while people are around. Maybe that's related to my pure extraversion, in that as long as they're around she can't focus on the task at hand, but I think it's more just that she actually does like doing these tasks, and doing them alone. She's said before that it's when she "clears her head out". She does get tired too, after say a dinner party or whatever, whereas I never do. After a party I feel like I'm ready to conquer the world.

    edit - though the theory in the OP seems consistent enough in itself (like BW's theories lol), it doesn't seem to really bear out reality as I've experienced it. Most EJ's I've known have liked being around people but generally don't tend to invite them back home very often - they go to work, go to school, college, church, bars - whatever - and get their people fix but seem to treat their home as a sort of private space. My guess is that it could be the J thing meaning that because they like their routinese and habits and things being 'a certain way', and because they know they can't realistically force these on the entire world or get the whole world to accommodate these preferences, that's why they like to keep their homes as a sort of space where they CAN indulge all these things, and prefer to keep people away from them as much as reasonable and polite, cos then they'd have to start 'flexing' at home, something that might be difficult or stressful. Perhaps.

    Meanwhile EP's I think are the most extraverted, being the types I've seen exhibit the most hyperactive type behaviour, which I reckon results from the simple fact that we're so extremely plugged in and engaged and energized by the external world that for as long as we can keep any of our senses conscious, we're being stimulated and loving it. EP's are the people I know with the most sort of 'open house' type lives, where not only do they go out in search of stimulation but happily invite it home too, and spend very little time actually alone because they can never turn away stimulation. Maybe ExFP's more so with the human company, and ExTP's more so with just 'stuff' like say, bringing work home.
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  9. #19
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    I seem very introverted. Stimulation is something I've never thought much about it. My stimulation comes mostly from some kind of creative process - which can come about in quite a few different ways. I don't actually "seek out" stimulation. I don't think I've ever been antsy because I didn't have enough stimulation. (I can always think, and that's extremely stimulating to me.) The only kind of stimulation I love is the kind that I can create myself as I move along. I like to be in control of every aspect of it. Examples of how I do this would be things like leading a group, being a comedian or performer for everyone, debating or talking, playing music, thinking, writing, ect... As long as I'm in control of it (at least my part) and it's interesting to me, I put lots of energy into it and get lots back. If I'm in a situation where I can't lead or supply the right kind of stimulation for myself, I pretty much ignore my physical environment and think while my body functions on autopilot. My brain is more stimulating than a few boring people, but the ideal situation is when I can make it seem like I've got everybody wired into my brain while I do some crazy experiment. Then there's lots of energy and fun. In short, stimulation to me means when the physical environment and other people start to feel like part of my brain. I feel connected to everything, like everything is ON, and my brain starts to feel like the universe itself. It's like jumping into a parallel universe and getting lost in it. Does that even make sense?

    I've never claimed to be certain of being extroverted. Maybe my idea of stimulation being a creative act is Ne. Maybe not. But basically, if it's not creative in some way, it's boring.
    "When a resolute young fellow steps up the great bully, the world, and takes him boldly by the beard, he is often surprised to find that it comes off in his hand, and that it was only tied on to scare away the timid adventurers." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  10. #20
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Sid, I didn't meant literally going out with the thought "i crave stimulation! I need to be stimulated!" but more a case of generally not being able to sit still, either mentally or physically or both.

    For example, an ISTJ friend of mine is often content to spend an afternoon just sitting in his armchair, staring out the window with nothing in particular going through his mind. He says it relaxes him. Several hours he spends, doing that. Several times a week.

    For me that's something I do very rarely, usually when I've got to 'crash and burn' stage of just being too tired, too hungover or whatever, to do anything at all. And yet still, after half an hour or so, I've done all the sitting still I can handle and my mind's wandering off to solutions to problems or just thinking of things to do, planning stuff, and before long I'm on my feet again.

    When you say "when the physical environment starts to feel like part of my brain", I relate to that a lot. That's what I meant when I said the stimulation doesn't have to be people.

    I also relate to what you say about going onto physical autopilot when you can't control your environment. That's how I get during committee meetings. If I'm not chairing them and have no control over them, and it's a case of sitting there grating my teeth for two hours whilst nothing interesting or new whatsoever is said, I'll switch off completely to the external environment or at least the immediate goings-on, and let my brain sizzle over whatever thoughts were put on the backburner recently because there were more immediate concerns externally.

    I like to spend quite a bit of time alone, but I never have the feeling that it's quite the same as when introverts do it. It doesn't usually (unless I'm specifically meditating or praying) have that 'calm, recharging' quality to it.
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