User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 52

  1. #21
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/so
    Posts
    1,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    X in type code means that the letter is unknown, not that the person is some "hybrid", that doesent exist its just that some people might be harder to type than others.
    Actually, empirically speaking preferences appear to fall upon a bell curve, and it's entirely possible for preferences to be close to middle. So a middling preference (an "x") can occur anywhere, even the on the P/J axis.

    I realize that's contra traditional MBTI (and Jungian) theory, but there's no actual evidence for type dynamics, including that introverted IPs are Ji-doms, or that extraverted IPs are Pe-doms.

    Also, even on the MBTI Step II it's possible to be "out of preference" on the various sub-scales... so there can be a lot of sub-scale variation on people of the same type.

    Meanwhile, carry on as far as describing traditional type dynamics.

  2. #22
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Actually, empirically speaking preferences appear to fall upon a bell curve, and it's entirely possible for preferences to be close to middle. So a middling preference (an "x") can occur anywhere, even the on the P/J axis.

    I realize that's contra traditional MBTI (and Jungian) theory, but there's no actual evidence for type dynamics, including that introverted IPs are Ji-doms, or that extraverted IPs are Pe-doms.

    Also, even on the MBTI Step II it's possible to be "out of preference" on the various sub-scales... so there can be a lot of sub-scale variation on people of the same type.

    Meanwhile, carry on as far as describing traditional type dynamics.
    50/50 on I/E from an MBTI test means that its I
    50/50 on S/N means that its N
    50/50 on T/F means that its F
    50/50 on J/P means that its P

    So even if you would score equal on all, you still get a letter(other than X) from the test even if you would score perfectly in the middle. But due to the nature of the indicator, it doesent even matter what you score on it. You see the test isnt even meant to give you a type, but to suggest a type.

    Also the thing is that type and functions are defined in a way that it doesent even really need evidence. What needs evidence is that some certain person would be a certain type and that cant be proved because no one created reliable enough tools for that(sure new MBTI tests have good reliability and validity, but i still dont think you can use them as proof of anything other than that the person answered in certain way). And even if it could be used as evidence for MBTI type, it cant be used as evidence for functions. And im sure that the argument i made needs some explaining.
    You see, if i say that there are people who prefer logical reasoning over making decisions based on mood and feelings about the thing. Do i need any evidence making that argument? No i didnt think so either.
    Then i can also make an argument that some of these people who prefer T > F seek the logic more from what the senses provide(need concrete evidence), while others of them put more trust in internal logic and deduction than concrete evidence, and see it as a possibility that the concrete "evidence" might not tell the whole truth, but might actually be something else than what it seems like. Again, its just obvious that there are this sort of differences in people.
    So now we have people who prefer to introvert T and people who extravert T and prefer them over F. I could go on by doing this to all functions, but i think you get the point.

    I should also say that if you claim that some people are equal on those things, i can easily prove you wrong by saying the statistical chance of there being equal amount of neurons working on both sides and that the neurons all are equal in every way is so small that even if you would fill the known space with humans it would be highly unlikely that there would be even one person like this. -> people cant be equal in any of the axis, but the letter can be hard to determine.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  3. #23
    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    567

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I should also say that if you claim that some people are equal on those things, i can easily prove you wrong by saying the statistical chance of there being equal amount of neurons working on both sides and that the neurons all are equal in every way is so small that even if you would fill the known space with humans it would be highly unlikely that there would be even one person like this. -> people cant be equal in any of the axis, but the letter can be hard to determine.
    And if somebody's got one more introvert neuron than they have extravert neurons, it totally makes sense to say they're an introvert rather than an ambivert, amirite? Calling that kind of person an ambivert would just be silly, clearly.

  4. #24
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reckful View Post
    And if somebody's got one more introvert neuron than they have extravert neurons, it totally makes sense to say they're an introvert rather than an ambivert, amirite? Calling that kind of person an ambivert would just be silly, clearly.
    People have both introverted and extraverted sides in them, they cant be equal. Nothing silly about that..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  5. #25
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    5,931

    Default

    Hybrids Unite!



    You rang?

  6. #26
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    I'm an ambivert.

  7. #27
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekEvans01 View Post
    My Se is just fine I'm observant of the environment snd I have great reflexes, sometimes I find myself putting my hands up in the movies when the woman in black jumps out at me. My Ti I use when I'm not talking to someone, and actually I don't know my socionics, I never really understood socionics. It is usually almost the complete opposite of myers briggs. I don't want this to turn into a big debate, I have a hard time not losing it in debates. You could get us all banned.
    In Socionics Se is not so much reflexes but an ability to read circumstances and a desire to understand or match up with environment, but in a more dominant, obnoxious way than the social matches of Fe. It's not so much about knowing what is correct or least hurtful, but being aware of what is trendy, or available, or what works advantageously. That doesn't mean Se types can't do "good" things, Mikael Gorbachev is listed as SEE and he was integral in bringing peace to the world, but through his political prowess, not his advanced ability to be aware of what is socially acceptable.

  8. #28
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reckful View Post
    And if somebody's got one more introvert neuron than they have extravert neurons, it totally makes sense to say they're an introvert rather than an ambivert, amirite? Calling that kind of person an ambivert would just be silly, clearly.
    Ambivert is totally possible, and there's plenty of research on it, apparently ambiverts in some ways are better at getting what they want than raging extroverts.

  9. #29
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Ambivert is totally possible, and there's plenty of research on it, apparently ambiverts in some ways are better at getting what they want than raging extroverts.
    True, in some other systems than MBTI.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  10. #30
    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    567

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    True, in some other systems than MBTI.
    Well, first, Jung said he thought more people were essentially in the middle on E/I than were significantly extraverted or introverted, and he referred to the people in that large middle group as the "normal man." And Myers likewise allowed for the possibility of middleness on all four MBTI dimensions. The official MBTI test is designed on the operational assumption that people have four preferences, and assigns people a (tentative) type on each dimension. But that's a very different thing from saying that the MBTI claims it isn't possible for someone to be in the middle on any dimension — and in fact, the MBTI Manual specifically notes that someone with a score near the middle is someone who has essentially "split the vote" rather than offered much evidence of a preference. And the more recent "Step II" version of the MBTI has five subscales for each dimension, and it's possible to come out on the E side (for example) of some of them and the I side of the rest.

    But second, and more importantly, assume for the sake of argument that the MBTI theory posited that it wasn't possible to be an ambivert (which, as just explained, it really doesn't). Jung broke with Freud in large part because he thought Freud wanted him (and others) to treat Freud's theories as a kind of religion, rather than having an appropriately sceptical and open-minded scientific attitude toward them. Given that today, as I understand it, there's quite a lot of accumulated data that suggests that most or all of the MBTI dichotomies (and the Big Five dimensions they correlate with) exhibit something along the lines of a normal distribution, with the majority of people in or not that far from the middle, why aren't you inclined to respond to that data by saying that the MBTI needs to be adjusted to allow for the middle possibility, rather than sit there and say, well, fine, maybe there are ambiverts in, y'know, real life, but don't be messing with my sacred theory—??
    Likes INerdTP liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. Social Masks, and Personal Rules. INFP 9w1
    By renaiziphonts in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-17-2014, 03:45 PM
  2. Philosophical personality test
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Online Personality Tests
    Replies: 323
    Last Post: 09-03-2013, 10:06 PM
  3. One ring to rule them all... blah blah blah (Not about LOTR)
    By Xander in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 05-18-2007, 05:29 PM
  4. Personality Soup
    By labyrinthine in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-29-2007, 11:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO