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  1. #31
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    The reason I mention age is that there are stages of development for MBTI. I wish I could find the website again, but there's some articles out there about this. Each of your functions are developed and deepened over time as a person ages. From (my rather shoddy) memory it vaguely goes something like this:

    0-10 - Dominant Function
    10-20 - Auxiliary Function
    20-30 - Tertiary Function
    30+ - Inferior function
    *turns 20 in july*

    *pulls out baby Te hammer*
    @EJCC @andante i'm ready
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so

    Likes EJCC, Yaru, Showbread liked this post

  2. #32
    Senior Member Yaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    It sounds like you are stuck in a rather conformist culture. That can be rough for the INFP, especially a 4.

    My sister was a bit of a nightmare at 8 so I wouldn't get too worried just yet. Keep pushing back and telling her something different from the stuff she's being fed. ExTJs seem to learn through challenging and being challenged. It might take a while but the stuff you say might start to sink in.


    My family were loving and accepting, it was everywhere and everyone else that was the problem. It wasn't till I got to school that I realised what I weirdo I was.
    Yeah. I think my sister will definitely be a sensor, because baby intuitives (if introverts mostly) are easily distinguishable in my opinion. I always tend to like them more. Maybe because I see myself in them?

    Maybe if I was a writer INFP I would have had less problems with people and my family. But the combination of Artist+INFP could be explosive for SJs. I also was a kind of extremely asocial, hippie, anarcho-atheist in my early teens. I made my parents go crazy.

    Some SJs admired me, some others hated me. But both always made me feel in awe and uncomfortable.
    Yesterday two ESxx girls came visit my family, they were 14 and 16. They didn't know me and after 2 minutes started asking me why was I weird, if I had some form of selective mutism, and if I was younger than they are.
    How can it be possible to me to feel embarrassed and inferior in presence of some young teen girls? It's just dumb. And with males is like a thousand times worse.

    Oh you were lucky then. Well, school is hard for a lot of people anyway, mostly if you're a new kid in a tiny town.

    Personality traits: a summary by Yar'Chun
    Introverted - Independent bitch
    Extraverted - Weak
    Intuitive - Creative 4th dimension spacelord
    Sensing - Dumb
    Feeling - Such confused wow
    Thinking - Smart
    Judjing - Nel mio intimo c'è Chilly
    Perceiving - Oooh butterflies


  3. #33
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    *turns 20 in july*

    *pulls out baby Te hammer*
    @EJCC @andante i'm ready
    Be careful not to take out your eye with that. Don't wave it around so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaru View Post
    Oh you were lucky then. Well, school is hard for a lot of people anyway, mostly if you're a new kid in a tiny town.
    Not really. The bastards systematically tortured me for 13 1/2 years.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #34
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaru View Post
    I am not really familiar with the duality concept, I understand the ''opposite attracts'' but hey, isn't this a bit extreme? I cannot get duality, how can a type so distant from my values and preferences be my dual? Is it not possible to me to think about it. I hate it. I cannot stand controlling types, is something that I just can't.
    SJs are the reason I've isolated myself from society, they cant be my duals. They destroyed my self confidence and I can't imagine a future with them.
    My grandfather is an INFP and he was in a relationship with an ESTJ, she ruined his life, she didn't let him be the beautiful person he is, she is a good person and I care about her, but her presence just drains me. The same goes for my ESTJ sister and step-mother. And all the SJs out I've meet out there but my ISTJ sister. She's the only one I can save.

    I am sorry if this sounds like a venting post, I just can't understand this theory much. It would be nice if someone could explain it. Even if I won't like it probably.

    Am I mistyped? I don't know.
    How do other INFPs feel about this? Do you feel comfortable with ESTJs?
    Have you been in a relationship with an ESTJ?

    I don't hate ESTJs, I think they could be good people, but they are so not for me..
    It is much more difficult when younger to cross that intuition/sensing barrier. That's the main thing you're running into. Also, you're just young. A lot of stuff doesn't make sense to you right now, because even if you have had all the schooling, you haven't had the experience. It just takes a while to absorb it all.

    As for "duality", there really isn't a "dual", here. There are lots of different kinds of opposites, all of which depend on where you draw the line to start looking at opposites. In your case, you're just changing every letter in MBTI to its opposite to get ESTJ.

    I've found a different pattern which tends to make more sense to me (and others like Dario Nardi), where within each of us, there is a tendency to grow into our opposite type, except you don't switch the E/I part. INTJs grow into ISFPs, and INFPs grow into ISTJs. These don't become your "real type". Rather, your real type is so imbued by the time you start growing into your opposite that you handle stuff that is your type's strength without effort, and the difference is that, with effort, you can start handling the kinds of things your opposite type is strong in more adroitly.

    At the same time you're repelled by that "ESTJ" stuff, you're also attracted to it. You need it, and even if you reject it, your unconscious side knows you need it. Eventually you have to face it. It will even affect your romantic relationships, as you'll find yourself attracted to people who evoke aspects of that opposite type within yourself even as you find yourself frustrated by them. (The same is true for them as you're their opposite, in that aspect, too.)

    Now, I wouldn't say go and meditate and look for this part of yourself. It kind of grows on its own schedule. I would say that it's very helpful to be aware of it, of your tendency to act the opposite way you normally would, to exhibit characteristics that you would normally reject. As you become more aware of it, you'll see that they're part of the same thing, sort of, e.g., introverted feeling and its opposite extroverted thinking, where both pull at your personality, even though the introverted feeling is dominant for you.

    I shan't go into to much extra detail, as it's difficult to describe without learning some shorthand language to talk about it all. It might be worth checking out PB's posts to see how an INFP who has grown into these levels of understandings handles things.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  5. #35
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Be careful not to take out your eye with that. Don't wave it around so much.
    Hehe, such INFP advice considering.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  6. #36
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    That post up there rivals my posts on things. But, unlike my walls of text, it is actually well constructed.

    That being said, my grandfather, an ISTJ who is actually quite hugely successful, can actually relate to both me and my brother quite well. The way I see it is that in the future, my brother will accept me more, and I will accept him more.

    And, if I'm correct in my type, that kid in the back of the math class that hates me for no reason will accept me more as well. I dunno though. I'll tell you in the future though.

  7. #37
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inis Mona View Post
    Hmmm as far as I know, the best match is introvert+extrovert, intuitive+intuitive, sensor+sensor, feeler+thinker, perceiver+judger
    The MBTI "natural partners"

    I'm going to call these pairings group A so that you can see the pattern. Group A's primary partner's Aux function is the same but of the inverse attitude, the same can be said of the Dominant function. The point is that it will become clear as you see the secondary partner.

    What you, @Inis Mona are referring to is Group B, which is not where INFP falls into. INFP is in Group A.

    Group A

    ESFJ (12.3%) + ISFP (8.8%) (Primary) -> Fe Si + Fi Se. ESFJ + INFP (Secondary) -> Fe Si + Fi Ne (Aux is different)
    ESTJ ( 8.7%) + ISTP (5.4%) (Primary) -> Te Si + Ti Se. ESTJ + INTP (Secondary) -> Te Si + Ti Ne (Aux is different)
    ENFJ ( 2.5%) + INFP (4.4%) (Primary) -> Fe Ni + Fi Ne. ENFJ + ISFP (Secondary) -> Fe Ni + Fi Se (Aux is different)
    ENTJ ( 1.8%) + INTP (3.3%) (Primary) -> Te Ni + Ti Ne. ENTJ + ISTP (Secondary) -> Te Ni + Ti Se (Aux is different)
    Total E = 25.3% vs Total I = 21.9%
    Total Group A = 47.2%

    Group B

    ESFP (8.5%) + ISTJ (11.6 %) (Primary) -> Se Fi + Si Te (Aux is different). ESFP + ISFJ (Secondary) -> Se Fi + Si Fe
    ENFP (8.1%) + INTJ ( 2.1 %) (Primary) -> Ne Fi + Ni Te (Aux is different). ENFP + INFJ (Secondary) -> Ne Fi + Ni Fe
    ENTP (3.2%) + INFJ ( 1.46%) (Primary) -> Ne Ti + Ni Fe (Aux is different). ENTP + INTJ (Secondary) -> Ne Ti + Ni Te
    ESTP (4.3%) + ISFJ (13.8 %) (Primary) -> Se Ti + Si Fe (Aux is different). ESTP + ISTJ (Secondary) -> Se Ti + Si Te
    Total E = 24.1% vs Total I = 28.96%
    Total Group B = 53.06%

    Keep in mind I left out the the Tertiary and Inferior functions.

    I also made a mistake thinking that Group A would be more, but clearly not. It seems I mistook Group A's Extraverted count as the majority. I used this source for my stats: Myers Briggs Statistics | Statistic Brain
    Likes Fay liked this post

  8. #38
    Senior Member Yaru's Avatar
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    Ok. All of this makes sense. Theorically makes sense. But real life application is different from theory. MBTI, Socionics or whatever helps you figuring out your thinking patterns.Not destinies. We all grow to OPEN our minds, that's for sure, and from what all of you are saying, ESTJs are the last people I will open my mind towards as I age.
    Relationships can be put in some sort of psychological theory to some degree, but something as whimsical,unpredictable and uncontrolled as love is impossible to put inside of a theoretical box.

    What life has taught me even though I do am relatively young, is that opposites attract to some degree. And I have thousands of examples.
    You can be attracted to your opposite and be fine in some cases, but mostly from what I can see, half of society is built by families composed by couples of two extremely opposed poles, and this creates an incredible amount of unhappiness in the 80% of couples. They end up in a relationship because opposites attract themselves and then after the flames cool out they become unable to love each other back.

    Why do I need an Extrovert as partner if my Introversion is caused by my hatred towards people?

    If I am in a relationship with an Introvert they can understand my need to be ''left alone'' we charge separately and then live together. It's perfect.

    And no. ESTJs won't affect my relationship. Not even a slightest bit. I am concerned about it because I just learnt about this, and I will probably forget this all in a couple of days.

    Attraction. I don't find people attractive. I rarely experience some sort of attraction, and I did feel attraction only towards people with my same type or just a letter away.
    Anyway the way I find attraction in people can't be related to love or sexual attraction, is more of a vibe that tells me it's a person potentially similar to me and healthy.

    My INTP partner has been in a lot of relationships with opposite types. He always says that the attraction at first is impossible to ignore. But they will eventually slowly grow to hate each other, and he would drastically end up their relationship.
    And guess what? He felt the same attraction towards me the first time he saw me and heard my voice.
    Even if I am just only one letter away.
    He never makes me cry or suffer.
    He is always by my side even if something extremely insignificant happens.
    And I often think that all our debates are so intellectually stimulating that is enough fuel to feed both of us with it.
    I think we don't even need sex as long as we have our brains and we can debate and discover stuff together.
    ESTJs? Will only become wood for our fireplace.
    So no. I think is quite inaccurate to say that it will be something that will affect my future relationships.
    Because it just won't. I will come here in 10 years and tell that I haven't change my mind.
    This doesn't implies that I will keep on rejecting SJs, I will probably like them because I always make myself accept realities I don't like, because you can live at peace with your own self if you are more accepting of the world that surrounds you... even if it doesn't mean that I would agree with them.

    Yes. I totally agree. I NEED SJs. We all do. So they can make all the works NFs and NTs find boring and useless so we can keep doing our nothingness, something an SJ would find boring an useless, so we can keep a world relatively balanced and spinning.
    We need all kind of people in the world. We need to see them, talk about them, hate them, ignore them, love them.
    It doesn't mean that because of that I have to love everything I hate and that everything I hate will unconditionally influence my relationships even if fairly healthy.

    I will conclude the rant saying:
    I DO NOT think Ns Are superiors, we need Ss, otherwise we'll be lost in most cases, we need they practicability and discipline even if we don't marry them. We need to learn from them.
    It's like saying there's someone who prefers black people over white people. But he grows to know they both have good things and reasons to coexist.
    He learns to love both black and white, but it doesn't mean that he would find his opposite skin and marry them.

    Okay I'm done.
    Of course you will find a lot of flaws in my speech, even because I was in the middle of a crazy dream and some really terribly loud noise just woke me up and I felt the irrational need to write.
    Love all of you anyway.
    Bye.

    Personality traits: a summary by Yar'Chun
    Introverted - Independent bitch
    Extraverted - Weak
    Intuitive - Creative 4th dimension spacelord
    Sensing - Dumb
    Feeling - Such confused wow
    Thinking - Smart
    Judjing - Nel mio intimo c'è Chilly
    Perceiving - Oooh butterflies


  9. #39
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Don't confuse extrovert with extraverted functions. The Exxx stands for Extraverted because the first function is Extraverted.e.g ESTJ is Extraverted Thinking (Te) first. ESFJ is Extraverted Feeling (Fe) (mostly human orientated). It doesn't mean that they are extroverts any sense.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Yaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    Don't confuse extrovert with extraverted functions. The Exxx stands for Extraverted because the first function is Extraverted.e.g ESTJ is Extraverted Thinking (Te) first. ESFJ is Extraverted Feeling (Fe) (mostly human orientated). It doesn't mean that they are extroverts any sense.
    Yes. I know that. But it is also true that it affects intraversion and extraversion quite a bit. Anyway I know some I types are more extraverted than some E types.
    But INFPs are clearly asocial in relation to ESTJs.
    ISTJs are fairly more social than INFPs as well.
    INTPs are more asocial than INFPs but they are better extraverts than we are.

    Personality traits: a summary by Yar'Chun
    Introverted - Independent bitch
    Extraverted - Weak
    Intuitive - Creative 4th dimension spacelord
    Sensing - Dumb
    Feeling - Such confused wow
    Thinking - Smart
    Judjing - Nel mio intimo c'è Chilly
    Perceiving - Oooh butterflies


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