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  1. #21
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    The way it works is simple, you have an INFP. You need at least one thing to relate between others. Whether you actually are the same or not, doesn't matter.

    This is because of the way I perceive relationships working, both parties must agree on things, but for you both to be the same person would be... Weird. I could see that leading to lots of problems, due to how I've seen people interact with "themselves". Such as the INTJs I know. They both called each other crazy over at the lunch table, and the more violent one made a mess when the other one pushed a plate of food at him. It is a weird lunch.

    I also believe I sit next to another INFP in class. This is because we both were the last to sit down and pick a partner. If he is not INFP, then he is ISFP.

    As such, potential matches based on this theory, in order of greatest to least, are ENTJ, ESTP, ESFJ, and finally, ISTJ.

    There are a hundred billion reasons why I would not have a relationship with ISTJ, but then again, look at Isabel Myers.

    ESFJ I don't know enough about. Sorry.

    But yeah. This is only a theory. I'm looking at what I think would rationally happen. Not what I think should happen or anything like that. Depends on a whole lot more than type for a relationship to work out. But yeah, in conclusion, it doesn't fit with my theory. Thus I am interested to see what happens.

    I should create a spreadsheet on type vs. type relationships on Google docs that people can fill in themselves. That would be interesting.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Yaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I like ESTJs generally - I find them direct, purposeful, straightforward, hard-working, honest and loyal.



    Yes, I am married to one, 26 years now (but re the post above, no, I am not @Showbread's mom.)



    Maybe, maybe not. Whether or not an ESTJ is right for you will hinge on how you feel about them as an individual. When I first met my husband, it was electric. Even still today, when I am in his arms, I feel like I was made to perfectly fit there. This kind of compatibility is about more than type; it encompasses yet transcends type.

    You will get to a point where you realize that no matter who you partner with, there will be some incompatibilities along the way. There are times I find his need for structure exhausting. He can be irritable and sometimes says things in an insensitive way. Yet every coin has two sides. He finds my open-ended nature hard to accommodate, and my need for spontaneity jarring at times too. Yet we communicate and grow together with the aid of each other's stronger functions.

    So, overall in my partnership, I find that our strengths and weaknesses complement each other well. As we get older together, his tertiary and inferior functions are strengthening in interesting ways, as are mine.

    Our largest problem area revolves around long-term strategic planning. He's best on short-term logistics and goals, me on in-the-moment adaptation and problem solving. Neither of us is particularly effective at projecting 5 years into the future.

    Hope that helps. It can be difficult for an INFP when surrounded by SJs - I have a lot of them in my life, so can certainly relate. Our job however is to grow into our own inferior functions, and as uncomfortable as that may feel, it's natural to be attracted to what we lack.
    Thank you for your response.
    I am glad that you found someone that completes you like that. Now I'm hating this less, I just don't like when they present you probabilities as the absolute truth, the only way to be happy, because it makes me hate the world. It almost feels claustrophobic to know that some truths cannot be changed. But even if I am not in a dual relationship I don't want this to make me start thinking that I will never be happy.

    An ESTJ wouldn't work for me.
    I really need the creativity and brainstorming power of my INTP partner, is really important to me to be with someone who can be intellectually challenging as he is and at the same time can work with me as a team participating and supporting my art. His stories and ideas are so awesome that inspire me like no other and I not only feel whole as a person, but as an artist too.
    He really hates working and gets bored of it easily, but he is working really hard to help me do what I love the most. And I don't think I could find the same things in an ESTJ.

    But yeah, type isn't everything, we are our own person and we all have different needs even if we are the same type.
    Thank you again!

    Personality traits: a summary by Yar'Chun
    Introverted - Independent bitch
    Extraverted - Weak
    Intuitive - Creative 4th dimension spacelord
    Sensing - Dumb
    Feeling - Such confused wow
    Thinking - Smart
    Judjing - Nel mio intimo c'è Chilly
    Perceiving - Oooh butterflies


  3. #23
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaru View Post
    I don't know what is ''young'' to you, I am young, But a 13 year old can be young as a 40 year old can be young, it's relative.
    I am 20 years old.
    I can go along with ENTJs. I can go along with all the N types. I just have a lot of trouble with S types. I have some ISFP, ESFJ friends, but they are just meh to me, we can't discuss of anything relevant. I adore them but they drain me so much. My ESFJ friend is the most adorable girl on earth.. but she's the only one talking, and I can't care about anything she says because isn't important to me. I help her vent and give her some of my time, but I don't really do anything with that myself. I just give.
    I adore my ISTJ sister, but this is because I feel a really deep need to protect her. So I do what she would like to do with me, try to be the way she likes me to, it's exhausting, but I do it for her because she needs me. Because we share the same blood.
    The reason I mention age is that there are stages of development for MBTI. I wish I could find the website again, but there's some articles out there about this. Each of your functions are developed and deepened over time as a person ages. From (my rather shoddy) memory it vaguely goes something like this:

    0-10 - Dominant Function
    10-20 - Auxiliary Function
    20-30 - Tertiary Function
    30+ - Inferior function

    I might have the ages wrong, but that's the basic concept. It means that as you are a INFP, Si and Te are your weakest functions (excluding shadow functions which I don't put much stock in), and you are only just beginning to come to grips with them. It also means that SJs are probably going to be hard for you to engage with and understand. Even if they are very healthy, for you they will reflect the weaknesses within yourself; traits that you don't especially like or fully understand. This can make SJs (especially STJs) more irritating and difficult for you to be around.

    I don't mean this to sound condescending by any means - it's just a common process of growth. I've felt the same things and it seemed like I would never thought I would change my mind, but I have. What I'm saying is, you might do too. And for this reason, INFPs and ESTJs can potentially get along very well.

    As for your general issue with Sensors, I can't help you there. I admit I also often prefer the company of Ns, but you shouldn't dismiss Sensors. As a friendly warning, there is a lot of prejudice and bashing about Sensors online and it's simply not fair and accurate. There's also a lot of griping about how oppressed and long suffering Intuitives are, and that Ns are an under-appreciated, secretly superior race. It's not a good idea to get caught up in this, as it just reads as arrogance, self-pity, and ignorance.

    On the other hand my ESxJ little sister ... I cannot stand. I hate her so much, and it hurts because I should feel the same towards her. But I just can't. I hate everything about her, I just can't believe she's my sister, we have NOTHING in common. She doesn't even look like me. She's got something evil in her eyes. She is scary and looks like a demon to me. She's all her ESTJ mother.
    I've been there. I have an ESTJ sister and I can tell you it was war between us practically from day one. I remember as a kid thinking of her as the devil's spawn. Everything about her seemed so wrong and backwards to me. I despised her bluntness and total lack of sensitivity. I thought her completely harsh, heartless and self-centered at times. Now, she's softened so much and become so open-minded it's really incredible. She's still assertive, but she more patient, accepting, and sensitive, and thinks more about the feelings of others. I've also toughened up a bit and become less over-sensitive. I'm less conceited and disdainful. I'm less judgemental about her directness and am starting to see the value in not beating around the bush. I'm also more inclined to take a harder line on some things, instead of (for example) constantly defending and excusing the behaviour of others when I really shouldn't. We still argue and occasionally rip each other apart, but we're starting to meet more in the middle personality-wise. It does happen, believe it or not.

    I don't know if you'll even get along with your younger sister. It may be a case of both her needing to soften and you needing to toughen a little for you to appreciate one another. It might take many years or it may never happen at all.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #24
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Duality is a concept related to Socionics, not MBTI.

    The premise of Duality is that both partners operate in entirely different social worlds that often don't meet (SF sphere vs NT sphere, ST vs NF sphere) When they are together, both partners take charge in their respective sphere, and are both weak and dependent in their partner's sphere. What makes Duality (and Activity) special is that they involve Super-Id block stimulation (Weak + Valued Element Positions). Even though both partners operate in different spheres, they find the other sphere enticing and stimulating, a sort of craving. Adding this into addition to the fact that they both share the same Quadra Values, Duality becomes a very psychologically stimulating and pleasing intertype-relation that helps both partners. Both partners are dependent on each other's strengths and both partners can protect their partners' weaknesses (and will be more inclined to do so since they are in the same Quadra).

    Duality often gives people a new perspective on life or on anything for that matter, considering your dual is always coming from a different yet intriguing viewpoint.

    This does not mean to say that Duality is perfect every time or is necessarily the best intertype relation (Activity, for instance, can produce a sort of extreme ecstasy between partners that Duality doesn't always achieve). Not all Duals are your friends and loved ones, not all Conflictors are your enemies and critics.

    If you want someone you can relate to, find yourself a Mirror or an Identical. Duality mainly involves experiencing the other side of things that you can't take the time to enjoy because of your own perspective (Ego over Super-Id).

    EDIT: On the topic of mistyping, your talk of your self-confidence being shattered by SJs may signify types that are engaging your Super-Ego Block, elements that are the source of constant criticism and psychological pain. Ergo, those people may be in your Orthogonal Quadra (opposing values, Alpha vs Gamma, Beta vs Delta).
    Enjoy a rare moment of a INTJ Enneagram 5 admitting in public that they *don't* know something...

    1) What do you mean "Ego over super-id?" Can you translate that into the vernacular, or give an example or two?
    2) what is a Super-Ego Block?
    3) What are the Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma Quadrants? They sound like something Buzz Lightyear would talk about in Toy Story...
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Enjoy a rare moment of a INTJ Enneagram 5 admitting in public that they *don't* know something...

    1) What do you mean "Ego over super-id?" Can you translate that into the vernacular, or give an example or two?
    2) what is a Super-Ego Block?
    3) What are the Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma Quadrants? They sound like something Buzz Lightyear would talk about in Toy Story...
    No problem,

    1 + 2) The Ego block contains your strongest two elements and the elements you use to navigate the world around you. Some examples: LII - and , ILI - and , ESE - and , SEE - and . The Super-ego block constitutes elements that disengage you from your Ego Block, which redirect your attention from what you are good at it to what you are bad at (in simplest terms). An LII, for instance, has the Lead perspective of in the Ego Block, and thus directs his main attention to information related to it in the environment and subsequently overlooks , the Role perspective in the Super-Ego block.

    The Ego and Super-Ego block are apart of the "Mental Block" which simply encompasses the elements that you are most aware of, and contain (from strongest to weakest) the Lead function, the Creative Function, the Role Function, and the Vulnerable Function. The Lead function and the Role function share the same perspective (for instance, Ij (Ji) or Ep (Pe)), and thus are apart of the same psychological state. Ij, for instance, is the psychological state of categorizing, analyzing, and literally judging the environment. A person who is good at categorizing, analyzing, and judging logically (judging impersonal systems and objective data) cling to the perspective, and since they are so focused on judging logically, they can't judge things ethically at the same time (, judging according to personal sentiments). An appropriate analogy would be trying to look at two objects at the same time, where one is in front of you, and the other is directly behind you.

    Reference Point:

    LII (INTj) in "Model A" (functional stacking system of Socionics):

    (Lead + Creative) EGO BLOCK [Valued, Strong] "I know I can do this" - Mental Block
    (Role + Vulnerable) SUPER-EGO BLOCK [Devalued, Weak] "I know I can't do this" - Mental Block
    (Suggestive + Mobilizing) SUPER-ID BLOCK [Valued, Weak] "I don't know that I can't do this" - Vital Block
    (Ignoring + Demonstrative) ID BLOCK [Devalued, Strong] "I don't know that I can do this" - Vital Block

    3) Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta Quadras are groups consisting of 4 sociotypes that all share the same valued (Ego + Super-Id) elements.

    Alpha Quadra: ILE, LII, ESE, SEI (, , , )

    Beta Quadra: SLE, LSI, EIE, IEI (, , , )

    Gamma Quadra: SEE, ESI, LIE, ILI (, , , )

    Delta Quadra: IEE, EII, LSE, SLI (, , , )

    The four intertype relations inside each Quadra are Duality (ILE + SEI), Activity (ILE + ESE), Mirror (ILE + LII), and Identical (ILE + ILE), and are mainly considered to be more comfortable relations psychologically.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Yaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    The reason I mention age is that there are stages of development for MBTI. I wish I could find the website again, but there's some articles out there about this. Each of your functions are developed and deepened over time as a person ages. From (my rather shoddy) memory it vaguely goes something like this:

    0-10 - Dominant Function
    10-20 - Auxiliary Function
    20-30 - Tertiary Function
    30+ - Inferior function

    I might have the ages wrong, but that's the basic concept. It means that as you are a INFP, Si and Te are your weakest functions (excluding shadow functions which I don't put much stock in), and you are only just beginning to come to grips with them. It also means that SJs are probably going to be hard for you to engage with and understand. Even if they are very healthy, for you they will reflect the weaknesses within yourself; traits that you don't especially like or fully understand. This can make SJs (especially STJs) more irritating and difficult for you to be around.

    I don't mean this to sound condescending by any means - it's just a common process of growth. I've felt the same things and it seemed like I would never thought I would change my mind, but I have. What I'm saying is, you might do too. And for this reason, INFPs and ESTJs can potentially get along very well.

    As for your general issue with Sensors, I can't help you there. I admit I also often prefer the company of Ns, but you shouldn't dismiss Sensors. As a friendly warning, there is a lot of prejudice and bashing about Sensors online and it's simply not fair and accurate. There's also a lot of griping about how oppressed and long suffering Intuitives are, and that Ns are an under-appreciated, secretly superior race. It's not a good idea to get caught up in this, as it just reads as arrogance, self-pity, and ignorance.


    I've been there. I have an ESTJ sister and I can tell you it was war between us practically from day one. I remember as a kid thinking of her as the devil's spawn. Everything about her seemed so wrong and backwards to me. I despised her bluntness and total lack of sensitivity. I thought her completely harsh, heartless and self-centered at times. Now, she's softened so much and become so open-minded it's really incredible. She's still assertive, but she more patient, accepting, and sensitive, and thinks more about the feelings of others. I've also toughened up a bit and become less over-sensitive. I'm less conceited and disdainful. I'm less judgemental about her directness and am starting to see the value in not beating around the bush. I'm also more inclined to take a harder line on some things, instead of (for example) constantly defending and excusing the behaviour of others when I really shouldn't. We still argue and occasionally rip each other apart, but we're starting to meet more in the middle personality-wise. It does happen, believe it or not.

    I don't know if you'll even get along with your younger sister. It may be a case of both her needing to soften and you needing to toughen a little for you to appreciate one another. It might take many years or it may never happen at all.
    Thank you for your explanation, it was quite interesting

    I don't want to sound narrow minded about the Sensor thing. But wasn't the internet that made me start thinking this way, it something that Ss wanted me to think since i was young.
    I think that Ss are so many that there are more underdeveloped Ss than Ns, even if they can be equally as good. It's like a battle between Sea and Sky.
    They are the ones who started treating me like an alien in the first place. They kind of wanted me to repel them, and they tried so hard at it.

    My mother is clearly a sensor to me, and this is the main issue between us. She wants me to be a sensor so badly that I almost feel she cannot love me because of this.
    When I as 2-5 years old, I had a really strong foresight and I could tell what was going to happen, and even though I was a really lovable child I would get really aggressive with the people I thought had a bad heart. I also was always asking questions about the universe, about the superior forces and why I was born white.
    All that scared her, and didn't know what to do with me.

    Now that we met again after 15 years she is always complaining because I am not as simple and practical as she wanted me to.
    My ESTJ stepmother was like that too. She cared about me, but she thought I was crazy and many times tried to force me to some sort of psychologist or tried to make me fit into their boxes all the time. '' You don't like have fun this way? Too bad, all of the kids your age like it, so learn to learnt to like it as well.''
    Even my father started to think like her (My father could be an INFP as well. But I'm not sure. I don't like to think we are the same type anyway. )
    He always told me I am born a circle, he was born a circle too, but we have to dress up like boxes to make others accept us in society more. Which is something I hate. I would never do that to me.
    He got in a relationship with her not because the INFP-ESTJ attraction, but because he needed a new mom for me and he got with the first lady he could find. But they hate each other and tried to separate several times.

    My ESTJ sister is still a kid, maybe I am getting her type wrong, but I always believed she was because she's the exact opposite of me and she's a miniature copy of her mother. Anyway she is so much controlling. She's eight and when she calls me she asks me if I am working yet. And I tell her, yes, I am an artist and I draw things for people. She tells me ''Oh that isn't a job, you should find a TRUE job, I mean. Something serious.''

    My ISTJ sister, (which I find out MBTI with. I took her some tests and she always got ISTJ and is her exact description, so scary) which is only 14, I respect her deeply because she is so smart and awesome for a 14 year old. I really don't notice the age difference. She also teaches me stuff and I like her a lot. But that's because she's humble.

    I have a lot of things to say but I don't want to bore you with my unnecessary assumptions.
    Anyway, even among Ns sometimes I feel I am being treated differently. I don't know maybe I really am retarded after all.

    As an INFP, when you were a kid, did you ever feel like you didn't belong in your family or your country?

    Personality traits: a summary by Yar'Chun
    Introverted - Independent bitch
    Extraverted - Weak
    Intuitive - Creative 4th dimension spacelord
    Sensing - Dumb
    Feeling - Such confused wow
    Thinking - Smart
    Judjing - Nel mio intimo c'è Chilly
    Perceiving - Oooh butterflies


  7. #27
    Senior Member Yaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alomoes View Post
    The way it works is simple, you have an INFP. You need at least one thing to relate between others. Whether you actually are the same or not, doesn't matter.

    This is because of the way I perceive relationships working, both parties must agree on things, but for you both to be the same person would be... Weird. I could see that leading to lots of problems, due to how I've seen people interact with "themselves". Such as the INTJs I know. They both called each other crazy over at the lunch table, and the more violent one made a mess when the other one pushed a plate of food at him. It is a weird lunch.

    I also believe I sit next to another INFP in class. This is because we both were the last to sit down and pick a partner. If he is not INFP, then he is ISFP.

    As such, potential matches based on this theory, in order of greatest to least, are ENTJ, ESTP, ESFJ, and finally, ISTJ.

    There are a hundred billion reasons why I would not have a relationship with ISTJ, but then again, look at Isabel Myers.

    ESFJ I don't know enough about. Sorry.

    But yeah. This is only a theory. I'm looking at what I think would rationally happen. Not what I think should happen or anything like that. Depends on a whole lot more than type for a relationship to work out. But yeah, in conclusion, it doesn't fit with my theory. Thus I am interested to see what happens.

    I should create a spreadsheet on type vs. type relationships on Google docs that people can fill in themselves. That would be interesting.
    That would be really interesting!Agreed!

    My father is probably an INFP, his wife is ESTJ. Their lunch is pretty much like the one you described of your INTJ friends. Same thing with my INFP-ESTJ grandparents. They are divorced now. But it never worked between them anyways. I am pretty sure their types are accurate. I also tested my grandfather yesterday, and he came out INFP indeed. No doubts. We are so much alike.

    I am in a relationship with an INTP. And it scares me because he's so much perfect to me that is hard to think is real.
    We are alike and opposite at the same time. If there's a problem he will strive to solve it.
    We have the best communication. We tell each other EVERYTHING. Like, everything. And if there's something that isn't working we discuss it and find a way to fix it. I never felt as loved before. He really lets me be and I let him be without forcing each other to change to be more alike. And this is because we are balanced like this.
    INTPs always fascinated me anyways.

    The other 2 men I ever loved were an INTx and an ISxP
    The ISxP made of my life a hell though.

    Personality traits: a summary by Yar'Chun
    Introverted - Independent bitch
    Extraverted - Weak
    Intuitive - Creative 4th dimension spacelord
    Sensing - Dumb
    Feeling - Such confused wow
    Thinking - Smart
    Judjing - Nel mio intimo c'è Chilly
    Perceiving - Oooh butterflies


  8. #28
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    It sounds like you are stuck in a rather conformist culture. That can be rough for the INFP, especially a 4.

    My sister was a bit of a nightmare at 8 so I wouldn't get too worried just yet. Keep pushing back and telling her something different from the stuff she's being fed. ExTJs seem to learn through challenging and being challenged. It might take a while but the stuff you say might start to sink in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaru View Post
    As an INFP, when you were a kid, did you ever feel like you didn't belong in your family or your country?
    My family were loving and accepting, it was everywhere and everyone else that was the problem. It wasn't till I got to school that I realised what I weirdo I was.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  9. #29
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inis Mona View Post
    Duality is correlated to socionics, not MBTI... in socionics INFp uses Ni+Fe, while in MBTI it's Fi+Ne which means it's a different type. If you're an INFP in MBTI, you're most likely an INFj in socionics and your dual is an LSE - ESTj in socionics, ESTJ in MBTI, bu for socionics duality for INFp it's an ESTp Se+Ti.
    In MBTI is fairly different, according to MBTI an ideal match for INFP is an ENTJ.
    Yet, MBTI really states INFP + ENFJ, Fi+Ne vs Fe+Ni. Most of the matches are inverse attitude based.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    Yet, MBTI really states INFP + ENFJ, Fi+Ne vs Fe+Ni. Most of the matches are inverse attitude based.
    Hmmm as far as I know, the best match is introvert+extrovert, intuitive+intuitive, sensor+sensor, feeler+thinker, perceiver+judger
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