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  1. #51
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by So, this is my challenge. Give us a demonstration of your Ni powers, right here, right now. Tell us something that is going to happen. And not just this one time. Not even twice. But consistently. Over time.arlaxle View Post
    • ...Which would be wrong because not all programmers are hackers and not all hackers are capable of hacking the NSA, it's a very specific task for a very high level specialization of skillsets, and it would be incorrect to assume that all programmers know how to program trojans or intrusive malware or inject unintended web service queries or reverse engineer security systems to find their flaws & backdoors, not to mention additional skills & character traits that aren't directly related to programming at all, such as social hacking or having the gusto to risk spending a life time in prison.
    • However, approaching a bunch of programmers and asking them to program anything they want in any programming language or tool they know as long as its running and working, is perfectly fine, because the only assumption you'd be making is that a programmer knows how to write some kind of program, and it's quite safe to say that if you can't program anything at all under any programming language or tool, you are not a very good programmer.

    Here, he is doing the later: He is not asking you to make a prediction in a specific area and he is certainly not asking you to predict the outcome of something specific he had in mind. He is asking you to make any prediction, in any area you might know of and in regards to any outcome you might be able too, any prediction at all. The only requirement is that it would be clear and observable. It is perfectly reasonable to say that if a prophet can't make any prediction at all in any area regarding any outcome, is not a very good prophet.

    If you don't believe the ability to make predictions about the future is part of Ni, then you have nothing to prove, but for those who do believe Ni carries predictive powers and claim to have those, it is perfectly reasonable to ask them to demonstrate it. There is nothing wrong with asking people to demonstrate what they claim to do. He isn't asking basketball players to win the NBA championship, he is simply asking them to try to throw a ball into a basket.
    Read the OP again Jarlax...
    So, this is my challenge. Give us a demonstration of your Ni powers, right here, right now. Tell us something that is going to happen. And not just this one time. Not even twice. But consistently. Over time.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oaky View Post
    Read the OP again Jarlax...
    Are you seriously going to assume that whatever you are reading into this is simply a higher level of interpretation one would simply achieve by reading it enough times until finally realizing you are right? If you want me to see the basis for your interpretation and to justify that your comparison has bone rather then straw, show it. What additional assumptions do you believe the OP is making beyond those that are covered by the very assumption he wants to put to the test?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    He is not asking you to make a prediction in a specific area and he is certainly not asking you to predict the outcome of something specific he had in mind. He is asking you to make any prediction, in any area you might know of and in regards to any outcome you might be able too, any prediction at all. The only requirement is that it would be clear and observable. It is perfectly reasonable to say that if a prophet can't make any prediction at all in any area regarding any outcome, is not a very good prophet.

    If you don't believe the ability to make predictions about the future is part of Ni, then you have nothing to prove, but for those who do believe Ni carries predictive powers and claim to have those, it is perfectly reasonable to ask them to demonstrate it. There is nothing wrong with asking people to demonstrate what they claim to do.
    Well said.

  4. #54
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    Are you seriously going to assume that whatever you are reading into this is simply a higher level of interpretation one would simply achieve by reading it enough times until finally realizing you are right? If you want me to see the basis for your interpretation and to justify that your comparison has bone rather then straw, show it. What additional assumptions do you believe the OP is making beyond those that are covered by the very assumption he wants to put to the test?
    Let me give you a run down summary of my inklings of this thread:

    These types of threads are not uncommon.

    1. OP notices Ni misconception
    2. OP adopts stereotypical misconception as a viewpoint for 'a few' Ni users
    2. OP lashes out in his own way against viewpoint to whole forum
    4. OP hopes to try and prove a point with it
    5. No one who believes they have such super powers are on here... or at least replied to thread
    6. OP didn't prove much to anyone...
    7. I posted in jest.

    After which you took my 'throw out' and decided to analyse it to alter comparability of what I've perceived. I didn't make an argument and the weight I held in my little analogy is so very little it feels like a chore to debate it.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
    I predict that sometime within the next 15 years the United States will embark upon a major war, which it will win. Right now we perceive that the U.S. debt and such will down its global position; this is illusory. The U.S. will continue to rise, and will continue to dominate the globe for much of the next century.

    How is that for a prediction?
    what a biased hypothesis. of course the US are going to enter a war (you always do it), but they are going to lose and will have to forsake the project of ruling the world (when I hear americans saying "why don't we send soldiers here and there" my usualy answer is "because the wolrd is not yours neither risiko").
    just look at how China bought your debt, is builiding a web of economic alliance with many emerging countries (never heard of yellow africa before?) and is overall playing much better on the global chessboard.
    moreover, many of your old allies are beginning to look around to seek more reliable partners that won't treat them as servants.
    what the hell do you think Europe thought after you spied the whole continent? of course they will look pleasing for a while, but underneath many people here hold a grudge against the US and would rather see you minding your own business. in short, everybody's just playing along.
    haven't you noticed how NATO takes less and less action toward terrorism and in general global threats?
    we failed to protect Ukraine successfully, and you will fail to protect Japan from China once time will come.
    I do foresee a war incoming, but the result will only be a major change in the words' setting, and nothing will be like it was before.

  6. #56
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    The future is something we create moment by moment.

    Who the hell could keep up with that minute tick of existence? And who actually has the influence or conviction to change it at a pivotal point? Especially when the point keeps moving.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  7. #57

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    Ni is a good backup to my Ti when Se provides insufficient data.

    I don't know if this is Ni related, but I tend to read people well and can often predict when people are going to act a particular way. Just a gut feeling I get.

    I think the OP kind of missed the point of what Ni is.
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    At heart, I’ll always be a bleeding heart liberal.
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  8. #58
    Senior Member Opal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
    So, I've heard a few Ni-doms describe Ni as a "powerful" cognitive function. Supposedly, one of its powers is the ability to look into the future and foresee what will happen. YET, when you look at the real world, there are no ppl who can consistently predict what will happen in human affairs, no sage stock market forecasters, no prescient political pundits, no genius military leaders, no insightful intelligence agents who can tell us what is going to happen with any degree of consistency or reliability. Just look at 911. Where was the Ni-dom to tell us that was going to happen?

    So, this is my challenge. Give us a demonstration of your Ni powers, right here, right now. Tell us something that is going to happen. And not just this one time. Not even twice. But consistently. Over time.

    You can't do it. Not better than a flip of a coin.

    As an aside, I have a INTJ friend who is a student of history, and he tells me that at critical junctures in history, when there was great upheaval and the future was uncertain, there typically was only one person who correctly foresaw how events would unfold--and sometimes there wasn't even one. And even when there was, successfully anticipating only one event is a poor test of real ability. It is beyond normal human powers to consistently anticipate the future. History shows this. As will this thread.
    "Powerful" is a meaningless descriptor. Ni is mystical, in that there is no formula that can be derived from its process. It distills information for a goal, nothing more. If the information is partial, so will be the insights it offers.

    I'm not sure what compelled you to pen such a combative thread, but perhaps you should focus on your relationships with said Ni-doms and your self-image. Both should offer more comfort than this thread's lack of prophecy.

  9. #59
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    i predict gravity will suddenly turn of and we'll all be floating for ten minutes in the year 2018 when it suddenly turns on again and we go flying back down to the ground.
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
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    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  10. #60
    is indra's Avatar
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    All this does stem from a poor interpretation of Jung.

    He was commenting on Ni doggedness when he said they perceive as eternal creatures.

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