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  1. #41
    Senior Member Yaru's Avatar
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    I can't predict the future of the world, but I usually am pretty damn good at detecting people that will be important in my life the first time I meet/ see/ hear about them. It's like magic. I can often perceive whether their intentions are good or bad as well.

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  2. #42
    Member doppelganger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PocketFullOf View Post
    I'm not sure I call it a conspiracy, they actually made some mistakes in security that allowed it to happen and I'm not sure they meant this or if it was due to being apathetic. What was gained by letting it happen was that they were able to pursue as aggressive a foreign policy as they wanted, it was basically a blank check, this might not have been the case if they had thwarted the attack because they would have proven themselves able to do so and there might not have been such overwhelming support for such an immediate and extensive response. I'm not sure they foresaw all the consequences of this, and I'm sure they did not plan for this to happen so calling a conspiracy or a false flag attack would be a little much. I don't really know how to put into words exactly what I would consider it.
    This is debatable. An attack on the WTC and on the Pentagon with hijacked planes carrying hundreds of civilians is a quite a provocation, even if it is prevented. The US could have made a very persuasive case for invading Afg to root out AQ. It would have been more difficult to make the case of invading Iraq, but that "argument" was made based on Hussein's alleged WMD and not on his ties to AQ, though those were alleged, too. Since Bush was able to convince the allies to act using lies, it can be supposed they could have done the same thing using (more) lies. And even if they had not succeeded in getting UN agreement, Bush would've gone in with a few close allies (like the UK) anyway. So I'm not sure history would have changed, but I am sure many lives and the biggest symbols of American power would have survived. That is, if there was a conspiracy. And I don't believe there was.

  3. #43
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    I predict that this thread, not having read it at all aside from the challenge itself, will turn into total garbage.
    J. Scott Crothers
    aka "Bush Did 9/11"
    Founder, Truthtology, est. 1952
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    Author, the Holy scripture Elevenetics

    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
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  4. #44
    Member doppelganger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
    The major power guaranteeing global trade cannot succumb to debt problems without the compromise of the whole system that it is guaranteeing. It is inconceivable outside massive environmental damage that the system which has expanded continuously since the 1700s will collapse. WWI tanked the British and transferred the role over to the U.S, but the U.S. is in no similar position to be tanked and replaced by a similar rival with sophisticated financial systems, raw industrial power, and a powerful navy and general security power. The British remained on top as long as they could pick winners and losers on the European continent; they didn't fall until their strategy of balancing failed when Germany overpowered the whole continent single-handedly. But a related former colony, a Britain to Britain, came to balance out Europe by favoring the weaker side. That was when Britain's position was finished.

    We are and will be to Eurasia what Britain was to Europe. For the foreseeable future, no single power will be able to dominate Eurasia; the U.S. will work to balance things and indeed has already begun to do so. Our lack of regional rivals is our great strategic asset.
    Your argument for the solvency of the US gov't is that it can't fail because its failure would mean the failure of the entire world economic system and that has not failed since 1700. In a word, it's never happened before so it can't happen now. I'd have to go back and examine the stats, but there have certainly been many periods where the world suffered deep recessions and depressions, particularly in the 19th century before gov'ts, central banks, and int'l organizations existed that understood the stabilizing role of centralized control in the economy. I can name periods like the Great Depression when world trade fell precipitously and economies suffered under deflation. We had a similar episode just a few years ago. So if we haven't suffered a complete collapse, yet, we have moved far from a stable equilibrium, if not in fact come quite close.

    Britain suffered in two ways in WWII. Its coffers were drained by the second of two major wars in a span of just three decades and further strained by the need to rebuild its war-shattered infrastructure. And it lost most of its former colonies. At the same time, America came out of both wars not only unscathed but rejuvinated by wartime investments in plant, machinery, technology, and infrastructure. Essentially, the US was the only strong and healthy man standing. So the mantle of guarantor of the world's reserve currency naturally fell on Uncle Sam's shoulders.

    If the US finds itself in the position of the UK after, say, a future war, and Europe or China somehow manages to escape as the US did in WWII, then the responsibility will fall on its shoulders. The Euro is already accepted as an alternative reserve currency. And should the US suffer heavy military losses while Europe didn't, then the EU could step up its military spending to assume the role of a military power. Likewise, China is quickly positioning itself to challenge the US as both an economic and military power. It isn't there yet, but the comparison is to some extent a relative one. If the US declines vis a vis China, that may be enough to reposition the two powers in the global theater.

    At any rate, I think you grossly underestimate the risk posed by the amount of debt in the US and around the world. The economy has been propped up by artificial and unsustainable policies. At some point, these policies will fail to work, and then there will be a reckoning. The dollar will come under attack as the world's reserve currency. That day may be a lot closer than many would like to believe.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    /the reason why Introverted Intuition is linked to mysticism and future-telling is because it deals with the perception of the intangible yet powerful effects that are rippling through the situation.

    A good example of is realizing what is important and what isn't. What produces an actual effect that is noteworthy, and what is pointless.

    It just so happens that people who are not only good at deciphering what's important and what isn't but are also decent at being attuned to the distortions reality employs () tend to be those that are above average (but not prophet worthy) at making predictions, whether it be short-term or long-term.

  6. #46
    friendly and accessible boomslang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
    Obviously there are INTJs and INFJs working in US intelligence. Probably a disproportionate number of them. Yet no-one saw 911 coming.
    You answered your own question, not mine.

  7. #47
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
    Your argument for the solvency of the US gov't is that it can't fail because its failure would mean the failure of the entire world economic system and that has not failed since 1700. In a word, it's never happened before so it can't happen now.
    No, that wasn't my argument. My argument is that if the system was upheld by random factors, it would have collapsed long ago. It stands for reasons, and as long as those reasons stand the system is upheld. I named what I believe to the the reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
    I'd have to go back and examine the stats, but there have certainly been many periods where the world suffered deep recessions and depressions, particularly in the 19th century before gov'ts, central banks, and int'l organizations existed that understood the stabilizing role of centralized control in the economy. I can name periods like the Great Depression when world trade fell precipitously and economies suffered under deflation. We had a similar episode just a few years ago. So if we haven't suffered a complete collapse, we have moved from from a stable equilibrium, if not in fact come quite close.
    The role of depressions is overexaggerated by those suffering them. Because the world economy waxes and wanes does not mean that the relative position of the U.S. is fundamentally damaged relative to the other economies.

    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
    Britain suffered in two ways in WWII. Its coffers were drained by the second of two major wars in a span of just three decades and further stressed by the need to rebuild its war-shattered infrastructure. And it lost most of its former colonies. At the same time, America came out of both wars not only unscathed but rejuvinated by wartime investments in plant, machinery, technology, and infrastructure. Essentially, the US was the only strong and healthy man standing. So the mantle of guarantor of the world's reserve currency naturally fell on Uncle Sam's shoulders.
    Britain lost its colonies because Japan took Singapore and showed once for all that the hold Britain had over them was mainly psychological. The U.S. stands in a similar position to vast expanses of the Third World, except that the U.S. outsources a lot of the actual implementation to dictators and supportive regimes. The U.S. took the global mantle after Britain's collapse; it was the U.S. which played the balancing act by working to destroy the new continental power, U.S.S.R.


    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
    If the US finds itself in the position of the UK after, say, a future war, and Europe or China somehow manages to escape as the US did in WWII, then the responsibility will fall on its shoulders. The Euro is already accepted as an alternative reserve currency. And should the US suffer heavy military losses while Europe didn't, then the EU could step up its military spending to assume the role of a military power. Likewise, China is quickly positioning itself to challenge the US as both an economic and military power. It isn't there yet, but the comparison is to some extent a relative one. If the US declines vis a vis China, that may be enough to reposition the two powers in the global theater.
    The whole point is that the US won't find itself in such a position. The U.S. is more powerful than Britain ever was relative to its rivals. The EU is finished as a military power; they've been a virtual protectorate since WWII. They were only saved from U.S.S.R. by the U.S., which did so because that's how this kind of power works; you create problems for the rival center of power that resists the orbit by surrounding it with as many enemies as possible.

    Think about this objectively and ignore all the debt hype; is the U.S. more or less dominant after the fall of the U.S.S.R? Before there were at least some restraints on foreign intervention, whereas now there are none. Is there any other country that we know with near certainty can invade any of its neighbors with impunity?

    China is overhyped. They are surrounded by U.S. created protectorates or former protectorates like Japan, Taiwan (right on the Chinese coast, preventing them from projecting their navy abroad like the U.S. does), South Korea and others. Obama's fabled pivot to Asia; it didn't happen, but what was that about? It's about the beginning of pressure on China.

    In addition to this, if you look up the statistics on the amount of value added in Chinese factories, you'll find that it is very minimal. China is much hype and little substance; in practice they have been converted into a big factory for the assembly of cheap goods. It is far easier to do this than it is to develop research facilities and industries necessary for developing new and competitive military technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
    At any rate, I think you grossly underestimate the risk posed by the amount of debt in the US and around the world. The economy has been propped up by artificial and unsustainable measures. At some point, these policies will fail to work, and then there will be a reckoning. The dollar like all other reserve currencies before it will lose its status one day. And that day may be a lot closer than many would like to believe.
    Sure, the economy of the U.S. is propped up by artificial measures. This has been true since WWII at least. How else do you maintain such extraordinary wealth disparities, both domestically and in comparison with the world? But this doesn't mean that such artificial measures can't continue and even increase. Someday the U.S. will lose its position, but I find it hard to imagine that it will be in the foreseeable future.

    Just think of it this way. The Japanese, a U.S. ally, did great up to a certain point. But then they ran out of things to copy in the West because technology peaked out. And their lack of R&D came back to bite them. The same thing will happen with China. The developer is tremendously advanced with respect to the imitator.
    Formerly Lion4!5

  8. #48
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    When I read the OP, I predicted that the thread will be a mixture of retroactive prediction claims for past events & various attempts to redefine Ni in a way that would imply predictive qualities without actually declaring so in order to dodge the outright claim, and that nobody would be willing to take the risks of making clear predictions into the future of now.

    I was right (Retroactively, based on the posts before this one). Give me the Ni medal please.

    (Still, I like your thread concept @Doppleganger. It would be cool if people actually answered your call).

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oaky View Post
    This thread is like going to a bunch of programmers and demanding they hack the NSA.
    • ...Which would be wrong because not all programmers are hackers and not all hackers are capable of hacking the NSA, it's a very specific task for a very high level specialization of skillsets, and it would be incorrect to assume that all programmers know how to program trojans or intrusive malware or inject unintended web service queries or reverse engineer security systems to find their flaws & backdoors, not to mention additional skills & character traits that aren't directly related to programming at all, such as social hacking or having the gusto to risk spending a life time in prison.
    • However, approaching a bunch of programmers and asking them to program anything they want in any programming language or tool they know as long as its running and working, is perfectly fine, because the only assumption you'd be making is that a programmer knows how to write some kind of program, and it's quite safe to say that if you can't program anything at all under any programming language or tool, you are not a very good programmer.

    Here, he is doing the later: He is not asking you to make a prediction in a specific area and he is certainly not asking you to predict the outcome of something specific he had in mind. He is asking you to make any prediction, in any area you might know of and in regards to any outcome you might be able too, any prediction at all. The only requirement is that it would be clear and observable. It is perfectly reasonable to say that if a prophet can't make any prediction at all in any area regarding any outcome, he is not a very good prophet.

    If you don't believe the ability to make predictions about the future is part of Ni, then you have nothing to prove, but for those who do believe Ni carries predictive powers and claim to have those, it is perfectly reasonable to ask them to demonstrate it. There is nothing wrong with asking people to demonstrate what they claim to do. He isn't asking basketball players to win the NBA championship, he is simply asking them to try to throw a ball into a basket.
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  10. #50
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
    Thanks. I'll look into that. But one prediction does not a seer make. After all, ppl do get it right from time to time, just as a busted clock still gets it right twice a day. To show it isn't chance or dumb luck, a person would have to successfully make many predictions over a period of time and have a success rate well above 50%.
    More than likely, Rick Rescorla wasn't Ni-dom anyway, so no Ni powers. His job was director of security at Morgan Stanley at the World Trade Center, so being aware of threats to the buildings was part of his job. He just happened to believe the threat of air attack was plausible enough to prepare for it. It only looks like prediction after the fact.

    Since predicting 9/11 had been mentioned a couple of times in this thread, I posted the link as info, not as proof that there are seers. I don't believe in seers or Ni powers.

    ETA: Assuming that me posting a link is me trying to prove Ni powers is just that--assumption. Because I actually agree with your OP--no Ni predictive powers.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga
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