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  1. #11
    Bot Alaska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I see the video as representation of the highly subjective experience of Te. It certainly presents the situation very much in favour of the Te user and him being sensible, reasonable and correct - there is no doubt of this bias.
    I didn't find him too appealing, either. You'd hope a lawyer's temper could hold out a little longer, as much as I'd similarly get mad in a non-professional situation.
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  2. #12
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixie View Post
    I didn't find him too appealing, either. You'd hope a lawyer's temper could hold out a little longer, as much as I'd similarly get mad in a non-professional situation.
    Yeah, there's certainly that going against him too I guess.

    I don't know. Maybe I just identified so much with the frustration that I'm forgiving of his anger.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  3. #13
    Senior Member Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    There's a lot of stuff to unpack in that (ironic, I know), I don't even know where to start. For one thing, I think it's interesting that you connect the immediacy of Pe to a difficulty with revisiting ideas, and general forgetfulness. This certainly works for me as a great explanation as to why Ps are so forgetful in comparison to Js.
    Well I'm sure you guys do revisit ideas- but I imagine it's more like recurring themes that get tweaked/improved every time they surface? It stays on the enthusiastic/optimistic side of things though because it isn't weighed down with experiential data like it is for Js.

    I feel like this whole idea warrants a thread of it's own. I may start derailing my own thread.
    Ha. Sorry. That whole thing had been brewing in my head, and this video has been helpful to me this year in clarifying the external appearance of Pi/Pe/Ji/Je. So.... saw the video surface -> spewed the tangents I'd been cooking.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nixie View Post
    Nice production, if the Te actor does overact a bit.

    The Ti user's questions come off as fearful, which might just be the actor's body language, but that is a misunderstanding I've been known to have of such types when discussing something with them.
    (In the off chance it needs saying) It's the product of comedians trying to make a legal transcript funny, with no idea it would eventually be used to exemplify Te/Ti (so no urgency at all to play the people 'fairly'- but I hear what you're saying, it's worth the reminder that this isn't entirely a fair portrayal).



    I think "Mr. Show veterans reenacting legal transcripts" should have its own cable station. (And I think John Ennis- the Te guy- always makes for a super funny "angry guy.")
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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I would gladly post another video of similar style and form that shows the idiocy of Te to balance the discussion, if I could find one.
    The flip side of that interaction, I was thinking, was the example in Rosewater that they keep playing on the radio, where an interrogator is accusing the journalist in the movie of being a spy and basing the allegations on Jason Jones (of the Daily Show's) interview of the journalist.

    As a Ti user, it can often feel like the Te user is just being a bully or trying to torture you when you are just pointing out simple facts or asking for simple clarification.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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  5. #15
    Bot Alaska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Yeah, there's certainly that going against him too I guess.

    I don't know. Maybe I just identified so much with the frustration that I'm forgiving of his anger.
    In the end, it's a 7-minute comedy piece and as such prompts all actors to shoot for the dramatic moon. But I must stop with the meta film critic angle and remember the topic. @Z Buck McFate, pretty much what you said; which I assumed went without saying.

    I rather related to both sides.

    I've often been the person to ask for detail because I don't like being given a task to do without knowing the specific essentials of the expected outcome - and if there aren't any or they might change at any time (), I'll just establish some for myself and stick to that plan even if I'm not obligated to. Needless to say, I like doing projects under my own direction when possible.

    When I say essential, I mean that there are certain details that, if changed, will necessarily change the outcome of a plan. Those are the ones I strongly prefer to have set in stone before the plan goes into motion. There are also many details that will not change the outcome, or don't have to. The latter, I'm interested in discussing mainly so far as how to handle them in a way that won't change the outcome into something unwanted. To the extent that they won't, they can be a bit more open ended. My patience for spending much time regulating and defining details beforehand that have no power to alter an outcome is limited, and I relate to the Te side of this example in that way. Ironically, that feels like defending ambiguity and spontaneity as long as it's kept out of the way of the real movers of the plan.

    All of the above hinges on the questionable assumption that there is a hard line between essential and nonessential considerations in any situation, and it depends on my confidence that I know where it is. It also doesn't include situations, not uncommon, where the act of working every detail is an essential part of the plan - those are fun. Or the other extreme, situations that are hurt by any planning at all.
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  6. #16
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Well I'm sure you guys do revisit ideas- but I imagine it's more like recurring themes that get tweaked/improved every time they surface? It stays on the enthusiastic/optimistic side of things though because it isn't weighed down with experiential data like it is for Js.
    True, but it is different partly for the reason you give (not entirely sure how yet, though). I was just thinking how your theory suggests something that I have observed (but didn't join the dots on, completely), that Js are inherently more connected to the future and less oriented towards the present, and vice-versa for Ps, with many implications resulting for both. For example it gives Ps more access to raw inspiration, but no real sense of where things are going, to the point where they struggle to structure their lives or mentally perceive time and foresee (basic, obvious) outcomes meaningfully. They're so disconnected from time (and their 'future self') and dependent on inspiration that they feel compelled go with it as it comes in the moment. They are unable to trust that they can find and access the place they are presently in ever again, and even if they do perhaps it will never be with the same clarity (hence the pit stops on the way to the destination). By comparison Js are so much more knowledge driven and have a solid foundation to ground them from which to oversee the entirety of the thought. Being more connected to time stream and their 'future self' also helps them to start things off and then revisit their ideas with clarity.

    But seriously, I am derailing now...

    Ha. Sorry. That whole thing had been brewing in my head, and this video has been helpful to me this year in clarifying the external appearance of Pi/Pe/Ji/Je. So.... saw the video surface -> spewed the tangents I'd been cooking.
    No, no. I didn't mean that you were derailing. It seemed totally relevant to me. I just thought there were so many ideas and complexities in what you said that I would like to explore myself, and not all of them relate to the current topic. I love it when someone can reframe MBTI or JCF theory in a new light that is revealing and inspires new thought on the subject.

    Seriously, start a thread on it and I will unleash my thoughts upon you against your will (if I can remember them).
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    As a Ti user, it can often feel like the Te user is just being a bully or trying to torture you when you are just pointing out simple facts or asking for simple clarification.
    Yep. I personally thought the Te guy in the video was an ass- the ass-ery made complete by Ennis's acting/visible anger, but I think even reading the transcript would have made me feel a bit prickly. "When you say photocopy machine, what do you mean?" doesn't seem like such a difficult or ridiculous question to me. All he needed to hear- after asking "what do you mean?"- was a few other words for "photocopier." Without even trying to answer the question, Te guy angrily expresses incredulity that anyone would even need to ask such a thing, and merely repeats the same question many times (even though the Ti guy said he needed clarification). I sorta don't understand how that doesn't look like bullying.
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  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Yep. I personally thought the Te guy in the video was an ass- the ass-ery made complete by Ennis's acting/visible anger, but I think even reading the transcript would have made me feel a bit prickly. "When you say photocopy machine, what do you mean?" doesn't seem like such a difficult or ridiculous question to me. All he needed to hear- after asking "what do you mean?"- was a few other words for "photocopier." Without even trying to answer the question, Te guy angrily expresses incredulity that anyone would even need to ask such a thing, and merely repeats the same question many times (even though the Ti guy said he needed clarification). I sorta don't understand how that doesn't look like bullying.
    Well, in that case, it was clear game playing. Who doesn't know what a photocopier is? We don't know what the context was, but given the transcript we were given, the supposed "Ti user" was very clearly playing a game.

    Perhaps he had reason to, perhaps not. Maybe saying that there was a photocopier in use would have led to consequences, and most of the case was spent with the prosecutor just trying to make the defendant say something like that.

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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  9. #19
    Row row row your boat SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I would gladly post another video of similar style and form that shows the idiocy of Te to balance the discussion, if I could find one.
    There's always Jeremy Clarkson.
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  10. #20
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    There's always Jeremy Clarkson.
    True. Any time he talks about motorbikes or public transport he demonstrates that perfectly.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

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