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  1. #1
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    Default Confused About Certain Introverts..

    I sent out the cognitive processes test out to a lot of my friends.
    I got six responses so far.

    Three of them- I got 100% correct. (ISTJ, INFJ, INFP)

    However- there were two who I thought were ISFP who came out INFP.
    One who I thought was ISFJ came out ISTJ...

    Here's the interesting thing though...

    The two "ISFP"'s who came out INFP have the following in terms of cognitive processes.. both are clear Fi doms- no surprise but

    Si>Ne>Se>Ni... (Se+Si)>(Ne+Ni).. wouldn't that make them S's?

    A difference between these two is that one had Ne & Se really close (I think .5 point difference) while the other had a much stronger Ne and a weaker Se.. both have 'Guardian' tendencies but I'm pretty sure they are P's..

    Also the "ISFJ" who came out ISTJ had something similiar

    Fi>Te>Fe>Ti.. wouldn't this imply that she prefers F over T?

    None of them are uber-introverted types.. I would go as far to say that the other three that sent me results back are more introverted.

    However they had

    INFP: Fi dom (Ne>Si)
    ISTJ: Si dom (Te>Fi)
    INFJ: Ni dom (Fe>Ti)


    The idea here is that if they actually are the types they tested as their tertiary functions are well stronger than their auxiliary functions BUT not beating out the dominant function...

    What do you guys think? Keep in mind, some of this is ego-related.. wanting 100% accuracy in typing my friends..
    MBTI Type: iNTj
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  2. #2
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I think that raw function tests are hopeless when they attempt to pidgeon-hole the results to match an MBTI structure. Using just four function places(as the MBTI does) the MBTI has sixteen combinations. However, if you allowed any of the eight congitive processes to occupy the four slots, there would a total of 1680 possible combinations. Obviously, it's more likely than not that any order you get will not precisely match an MB type.

    So, what if you feel like you have to pick one? Well, me, I have more faith in the general concept of the cognitive processes than I do in the MBTI, so I usually prefer going with loose function models.

    Of course, there's the disclaimer that it is just a test, and has flaws.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #3
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    It's a test. It doesn't necessarily suss out the relative strengths of the cognitive functions. Getting 20% Se and 40% Ne doesn't mean your Ne is twice as strong as your Se.

  4. #4
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Default

    Some of the questions in the functions test are a bit confusing so I don't wonder why the results can something that is not expected.

  5. #5
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    ...The two "ISFP"'s who came out INFP have the following in terms of cognitive processes.. both are clear Fi doms- no surprise but
    Stepping completely away from the tests for a moment:

    1. SFP is easily confused with N.

    2. Most people consider themselves "creative and imaginative" (and ISFPs often can be), and they might answer questions that are testing for N with N responses, not able to separate their own S vs N easily.

    3. You mention the conservatism -- yes, actually most of the ISFPs I know grew up in a conservative environment and even with them being "free-form" and low-key wanderers and dabblers, the Fi value set is anchored in the conservative religious values and I didn't expect such a strong commitment to that particular mindset.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #6
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    Lol, the rest of my friends are lame and I don't think they are going to take the test.
    I even got the following message from one (a probable ISTJ- 2nd bet: INTJ)

    "Uh, no thanks. I can't remember what I get on these things anyway, and my answers depend on my mood."

    I told him he was probably an ISTJ and tested as more F if he felt moody.. I did get a response back from him but it had nothing to do with personality type- so yea.. I think my experiment has been shot.

    From the results, I've gotten back from my personality test-friendly friends- I have 100% Introversion rate.

    I don't think there are INTPs or ENTPs in the group.. I told the others who haven't taken the test they have the potential to test an 'elite NT' (even though I think only one of them is NT).. but no go.
    MBTI Type: iNTj
    Enneagram Type: 3w4 sp/sx

  7. #7
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Stepping completely away from the tests for a moment:

    1. SFP is easily confused with N.

    2. Most people consider themselves "creative and imaginative" (and ISFPs often can be), and they might answer questions that are testing for N with N responses, not able to separate their own S vs N easily.

    3. You mention the conservatism -- yes, actually most of the ISFPs I know grew up in a conservative environment and even with them being "free-form" and low-key wanderers and dabblers, the Fi value set is anchored in the conservative religious values and I didn't expect such a strong commitment to that particular mindset.
    These are good points. I think this is true for my sister in particular. She was a little rebellious in high school but has completely turned a 180 now. I think some of it may have to do from the influence of my very self-righteous ISTJ friend who she's dating now- the ISTJ/IXFP connection makes so much sense now- connection through Fi.

    She's the one (a reason why I thought that was J) who reminds me that I shouldn't be drinking underage because it is against the law. None of her friends drink heavily (even the definite SP's she met in college)..

    My parents are both extremely conservative- however I think my ENTJ dad is more so libertarian while my ESTJ mom is a true conservative.

    The other ISFP who tested as INFP is a wonderful artist. She likes to daydream and think about the future but at the same time, she's very down-to-earth and extremely detail oriented. That's why I think she's an S.

    When comparing and contrasting her art to another friend who is a definite N- the ISFP has every detail done perfectly but isn't extremely creative and is best at drawing real-life friends.. my other friend isn't as detail-oriented but has very creative works.

    This leads to a question about myself and a reason why I (yet again) am doubting my Introversion.

    Do Introverts enjoy parties?
    Would they enjoy the heavy drinking that is involved?

    In high school, I ended up hanging out with the 'nerd' clique (because I'm a freaking nerd and somewhat socially awkward) and I'm the only one in my clique who drinks in college. It seems like most of the people from this group I gave tests to test as Introvert and since all the ones I thought could have been Extraverts tested as Introvert.. I doubt the remaining four who seem so goddamn stubborn about not taking the test are Extraverts.. so I am in an all-Introvert group.

    I know of many ISXP types who are crazy-ass drinking types though.
    A lot of EXXJ types do too but they do so with more so the desire of social acceptance than anything else... they don't get the same enjoyment out of it as the IXXP types probably do.

    So is enjoyment of partying solely correlated to Extraversion or does Perceiving play a large role?

    When I was discussing MBTI with some of my college friends- one who tested as an INTP said he couldn't believe I was that type on the sole basis that I go to frat parties and enjoy them and make friends with people who are part of these institutions.

    Goddamn it! Just when I thought I was done.. the Cognitive Process test is flawed... I am ENTP again!!!!!!!
    MBTI Type: iNTj
    Enneagram Type: 3w4 sp/sx

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    100% accuracy in typing my friends..
    This is impossible given the weakness of the system.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    I sent out the cognitive processes test out to a lot of my friends.
    I got six responses so far.

    Three of them- I got 100% correct. (ISTJ, INFJ, INFP)

    However- there were two who I thought were ISFP who came out INFP.
    One who I thought was ISFJ came out ISTJ...

    Here's the interesting thing though...

    The two "ISFP"'s who came out INFP have the following in terms of cognitive processes.. both are clear Fi doms- no surprise but

    Si>Ne>Se>Ni... (Se+Si)>(Ne+Ni).. wouldn't that make them S's?

    A difference between these two is that one had Ne & Se really close (I think .5 point difference) while the other had a much stronger Ne and a weaker Se.. both have 'Guardian' tendencies but I'm pretty sure they are P's..

    Also the "ISFJ" who came out ISTJ had something similiar

    Fi>Te>Fe>Ti.. wouldn't this imply that she prefers F over T?

    None of them are uber-introverted types.. I would go as far to say that the other three that sent me results back are more introverted.

    However they had

    INFP: Fi dom (Ne>Si)
    ISTJ: Si dom (Te>Fi)
    INFJ: Ni dom (Fe>Ti)


    The idea here is that if they actually are the types they tested as their tertiary functions are well stronger than their auxiliary functions BUT not beating out the dominant function...

    What do you guys think? Keep in mind, some of this is ego-related.. wanting 100% accuracy in typing my friends..
    I came out ESTP once.
    Took me 6 years to decide on a type fully.

    I remember one time where I told my mother I was ENFP because i was spontaneous and had strong feelings.
    It's not that simple, theres things in every type that people recognize.
    My ISTJ dad likes puzzling but he's intuition last (although he COULD be a very cooled down ENTJ...)
    bruised and battered ENTJ sx/sp/so 8w9
    Tri-fix: 8w9 sx/sp - 3w4 sp/sx - 5w6 soc/sx
    http://leonardolestat.mypersonality.info

    (I'm secretly ENxP, but don't tell anyone)

    "Mother, I love you, I never meant to hit you over the head with that shovel."

  10. #10
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    However- there were two who I thought were ISFP who came out INFP. One who I thought was ISFJ came out ISTJ...
    The confusion between ISFP and INFP can happen, that's not a big deal. SFP mimics N in some ways, it's a common error.

    It is a little more odd to see the confusion between ISFJ and ISTJ at least in female friends versus male friends in US culture. The "cold" aspect of female ISTJ tends to stick out like a sore thumb; but the male ISFJ still tends to be subdued and potentially get recognized as ISTJ until you get to know them. I'm not sure why, though, you might have confused them in the opposite direction....

    The two "ISFP"'s who came out INFP have the following in terms of cognitive processes.. both are clear Fi doms- no surprise but

    Si>Ne>Se>Ni... (Se+Si)>(Ne+Ni).. wouldn't that make them S's?
    First question: Are you sure they AREN'T S's? How did you validate which mistake was actually made here -- the mistake of thinking them S or the mistake of them thinking they test as N?


    A difference between these two is that one had Ne & Se really close (I think .5 point difference) while the other had a much stronger Ne and a weaker Se.. both have 'Guardian' tendencies but I'm pretty sure they are P's..
    ISFPs raised in traditional subcultures often absorb the moral values as part of their Fi and take on the trappings of the subculture, I've seen that a lot where they'll have values similar to the guardians, and the ISFPs can be much more stable than you would expect based on their P nature. I think in their case, the phlegmatic tendencies (i.e., the desire not to expend any extra energy) mirror the SJ stability factor.

    Also the "ISFJ" who came out ISTJ had something similiar
    Fi>Te>Fe>Ti.. wouldn't this imply that she prefers F over T?
    ISFJs can do lots of Te-seeming things, especially when it comes to organization and maintaining processes. Usually they work very diligently at such things out of loyalty to the people they've made commitment to.

    In any case, the first question again -- since there is a disparity -- is how did you validate what mistake actually got made here, and which type read is the "correct" one?

    Personally, I have never really had a lot of issues between ISFJ and ISTJ women, the latter come off (usually) as far stiffer and colder and not at all with the sense of warmth that ISFJs can project.

    ISTJ women usually get hung up on whether the process and situation is working as efficiently and sensibly as possible (which is why they can usually excel at such things like information technology and library science); the ISFJ women focus much more on whether everyone's needs are being met by the process and who is being included vs excluded as per social expectations.

    Both types, however, are extremely diligent, hard-working, faithful, and sensible; they have a very similar work ethic.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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