User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 42

  1. #21
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Ehhh. I relate very much to Ni and a tiny bit to Ti and Fi. I don't relate to the others at all, especially the tone of voice. I have a hard time associating with descriptions that "talk for" me. I like the effort, and it's different from a lot of other description sets I've seen, so I appreciate that. Unfortunately I don't really see it as being very accurate. Sometimes I think the best strategy would just be to let well-studied people of each type/function write their own descriptions.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    864 sx/so
    Posts
    917

    Default

    Ti > Si > Te > Se > Fi > Ni > Fe > Ne

    Yeah...

    Hey, what happened to Ne? It sounds preachy, condescending, and bossy. I'm not into this Golden Palace and Utopia stuff. A snake oil salesman or a hustler would talk like this.
    Likes OrangeAppled, Chanaynay liked this post

  3. #23
    across the universe Olm the Water King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    459 sx/so
    Socionics
    EII
    Posts
    1,583

    Default

    It's really hard for me to fully relate to any of these, so I don't know what to say. I guess the closest to being my number 1 is Fi, but it's still not quite accurate.

  4. #24
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    1,683

    Default

    Yeah...I'm more sure that I'm an ENTJ as I was initially typed but I have some sentiments that could potentially add to the theory of mbti and make it less discrete to align with the natural flowering of the personality - based on my experience (something I see as empirical to a degree).

    I really appreciate this by the way.

    Particularly the description for NI is the reason why even though I have artistic talent I find it hard to harness and make a living out of it so opt to do other things that are more practical.


    EDIT:
    for example sometimes it feels like I'm 50/50 TE and TI.....50/50 NI/NE.....50/50 SE/SI and 50/50 FE/FI....but this may be because I'm trying to deepen my consciousness by reading about the functions and then intentionally utilizing them or because I've chosen to do work which emphasizes my shadow traits.
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  5. #25
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Agreed. Fi definitely sounded like Fi-dom and Fi-aux.


    Agreed -- I think it has to do with the sensory language that was used in the description. If I had written it, I would have probably referred more to others' actions, and the steps they're taking/directions they're going, as opposed to the current state of the world in a sensory way (e.g. "the sky is blue").


    Is the person who wrote those descriptions an Se-user? I'm wondering if this is Si from an Se perspective. Because the Si description seemed totally foreign to me.

    Yes that's very possible that with Se as a more prominent function Si can be perceived as consciously narrow (it doesn't enter my view if I can't relate it to something already known and even already preferred, is how Si can seem if the person has a strong imbalance towards Si, and I think this is why Jung said the imbalanced Si type can become a mad man)...though I would think even a balanced Si type might relate to preferring the depth of their preferences over breadth, particularly Si doms, who are likely to vocalize things like preferring familiar foods, not being open to experience they deem strange or scary like staying in a hostel or at a stranger's home versus a hotel room or family members place, or having deep detailed interests that they spend a lot of time on.

  6. #26
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    I think @Arcana & @skylights hit the nail on the head with why these descriptions are not appealing to some, especially to INFPs (who so far seem to almost unanimously dislike them). The emotional tone and language doesn’t match the type in every case, even if the details may technically be correct. That’s a big problem for INFPs, who will seek to be precise in the emotional tones, as they convey as much meaning as the words themselves. The Si description has so much metaphor it has an intuitive feel, yet what it’s describing is not entirely wrong for Si. It’s language and tone was more appealing to me than the Fi description (fantasizing, finding meaning in quiet but beautiful things like gardens and novels, a disconnect from reality and finding the outside world harsh at times - sounds a lot like many INFPs), but what is actually said is not right for me. I am very restless to explore novelty and have a great irritation with too much repetition unless something is important to me (then I may "repeat" it until adequately refined).

    For me, the Fi described here is very simplistic and has some bizarre focus on expression of judgment (which always sounds like Ji through a Je lens, failing to grasp how Ji works). I see Fi in terms of creating/refining value concepts, not making a judgment. I very much know what I want, but I have trouble putting it into a form that can be communicated to others, and it’s not surprising that other INFPs are relating more to the Ni description because it has more of that flavor. There are these basic, pre-verbal concepts of value that you’ve determined, but they are hard to communicate in a way others will know exactly what you mean. Since Fi is more inwardly focused, this communication often doesn’t seem necessary except when something is threatened or you have a rare moment of deep fulfillment. Other than that, the focus is on creating congruency between the parts of yourself with these value-concepts. How you feel rationally (aka what you believe is truly important), how you feel emotionally, what you desire, how you act, what you say, etc - a harmony & consistency between these is sought. Without that is inner turmoil, and this is a constant problem because you don’t always know what a value-concept will look like in terms of emotions, desires, actions, words, etc. So you explore and adjust, refining your guage as you go.

    My interpretation of Fi is also about meaning and significance in the human experience, and using the self as a sort of testing ground for discovering and creating that meaning (the self is the “guage”). This is done through fantasy, memory, direct experience, as well as through reasoning. Since the focus is on creating, refining and searching for the manifestation of value-concepts, it’s less about communicating and applying judgment directly. The passionate force of the Fe description is appealing, but I don’t have the directive style; I certainly have the passion though, which is apparent when those moments of violation or fulfillment occur. The Fi style is perhaps meant to sound more exploratory, but it comes off as weak and unsure. Fi is not weak nor unsure - the holding back is because something is not striking to you. It neither fulfills an ideal nor violates one, but if it does, that’s when it breaks out in expression.

    If I am indecisive it’s because there are no options good enough (not close enough to an ideal that I am struggling to define in real terms) or too many options which seem good and I fear choosing the wrong one. Ne is what helps propel the exploratory process, otherwise, you get stuck in fear of choosing something that may not fulfill or could even violate an ideal. With FiSe types, they seem to hesitate too, but less so. They may only seeing the immediate options since everything else is too far-off to be valid, and I suppose they decide to just go with one rather than wait too long for something that's speculation at best. But this can make them get into things which stray from their values and creates that inner turmoil. In contrast, INFPs often don’t live enough, because we’re holding out for something great which is not yet here, which we haven't quite seen ever, but we know in our bones COULD exist.

    The Ne description is too positive for me (sounds like an e7 on cocaine), but the basic idea of seeing a potential as totally possible, but then getting bored with the details of implementing it, is relatable. More than that, I get very restless when I feel “stuck”, as if the present reality is a cage to be escaped. I want things to always be changing, morphing into the next phase, to see potential emerging. This makes it hard to do the repetition necessary for refinement and implementation. I instead want to move onto another big change, to begin the next chapter, not to fill in the details. When I am in the middle of a possibility emerging as a reality, then I am most positive and energized. Perhaps because Ne-dom are more often in that state, being their dominant mindset, they are generally more upbeat. I am not as talented as they are at creating these changes, but I am possibly as unsatisfied with the status quo and driven towards some grand vision that could seem unrealistic to others.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe
    Likes chickpea, skylights liked this post

  7. #27
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I think @Arcana & @skylights hit the nail on the head with why these descriptions are not appealing to some, especially to INFPs (who so far seem to almost unanimously dislike them). The emotional tone and language doesn’t match the type in every case, even if the details may technically be correct. That’s a big problem for INFPs, who will seek to be precise in the emotional tones, as they convey as much meaning as the words themselves. The Si description has so much metaphor it has an intuitive feel, yet what it’s describing is not entirely wrong for Si. It’s language and tone was more appealing to me than the Fi description (fantasizing, finding meaning in quiet but beautiful things like gardens and novels, a disconnect from reality and finding the outside world harsh at times - sounds a lot like many INFPs), but what is actually said is not right for me. I am very restless to explore novelty and have a great irritation with too much repetition unless something is important to me (then I may "repeat" it until adequately refined).

    For me, the Fi described here is very simplistic and has some bizarre focus on expression of judgment (which always sounds like Ji through a Je lens, failing to grasp how Ji works). I see Fi in terms of creating/refining value concepts, not making a judgment. I very much know what I want, but I have trouble putting it into a form that can be communicated to others, and it’s not surprising that other INFPs are relating more to the Ni description because it has more of that flavor. There are these basic, pre-verbal concepts of value that you’ve determined, but they are hard to communicate in a way others will know exactly what you mean. Since Fi is more inwardly focused, this communication often doesn’t seem necessary except when something is threatened or you have a rare moment of deep fulfillment. Other than that, the focus is on creating congruency between the parts of yourself with these value-concepts. How you feel rationally (aka what you believe is truly important), how you feel emotionally, what you desire, how you act, what you say, etc - a harmony & consistency between these is sought. Without that is inner turmoil, and this is a constant problem because you don’t always know what a value-concept will look like in terms of emotions, desires, actions, words, etc. So you explore and adjust, refining your guage as you go.

    My interpretation of Fi is also about meaning and significance in the human experience, and using the self as a sort of testing ground for discovering and creating that meaning (the self is the “guage”). This is done through fantasy, memory, direct experience, as well as through reasoning. Since the focus is on creating, refining and searching for the manifestation of value-concepts, it’s less about communicating and applying judgment directly. The passionate force of the Fe description is appealing, but I don’t have the directive style; I certainly have the passion though, which is apparent when those moments of violation or fulfillment occur. The Fi style is perhaps meant to sound more exploratory, but it comes off as weak and unsure. Fi is not weak nor unsure - the holding back is because something is not striking to you. It neither fulfills an ideal nor violates one, but if it does, that’s when it breaks out in expression.

    If I am indecisive it’s because there are no options good enough (not close enough to an ideal that I am struggling to define in real terms) or too many options which seem good and I fear choosing the wrong one. Ne is what helps propel the exploratory process, otherwise, you get stuck in fear of choosing something that may not fulfill or could even violate an ideal. With FiSe types, they seem to hesitate too, but less so. They may only seeing the immediate options since everything else is too far-off to be valid, and I suppose they decide to just go with one rather than wait too long for something that's speculation at best. But this can make them get into things which stray from their values and creates that inner turmoil. In contrast, INFPs often don’t live enough, because we’re holding out for something great which is not yet here, which we haven't quite seen ever, but we know in our bones COULD exist.

    The Ne description is too positive for me (sounds like an e7 on cocaine), but the basic idea of seeing a potential as totally possible, but then getting bored with the details of implementing it, is relatable. More than that, I get very restless when I feel “stuck”, as if the present reality is a cage to be escaped. I want things to always be changing, morphing into the next phase, to see potential emerging. This makes it hard to do the repetition necessary for refinement and implementation. I instead want to move onto another big change, to begin the next chapter, not to fill in the details. When I am in the middle of a possibility emerging as a reality, then I am most positive and energized. Perhaps because Ne-dom are more often in that state, being their dominant mindset, they are generally more upbeat. I am not as talented as they are at creating these changes, but I am possibly as unsatisfied with the status quo and driven towards some grand vision that could seem unrealistic to others.
    That's because you INFP have Si as a relief function, so it sounds appealing to you probably, but an imbalanced Si dom wouldn't "enjoy" doing it, it would be an utterly unconscious disconnect from objective reality that they think is all of reality, because Si to them is a dominant function. A balanced Si type isn't necessarily that extreme, but the main reason they don't recognize themselves is because they believe that narrow view is reality. I experienced this sometimes with my grandfather who was otherwise a very intelligent man. So yes the descriptions are imperfect and were written with bias, and not only that, but functions usually don't work alone but in tandem with others, so almost any attempt for a layman to entirely isolate them may produce the effect of an imbalanced example of that type.

    I like your comparison of the FiSe type and INFP, where the Se type will eventually choose something and act upon it, and the INFP at times holds back maybe for lack of that mysterious possibility. My fear is definitely more akin to wasting time or wasting my life rather than the suspicion that the perfect choice has not yet come.

    It's weird because I didn't read the description of Fi as weak or unsure, but you and Arcana saw it that way. Of course there is more to Fi than the passage describes, but the final judgment process is what is more apparent to an outsider than a refining process of analysis of the human experience (something I strongly relate to and it's why I have an interest in history and used to be more interested in politics, as well as things like psychology, film and literature).
    Likes OrangeAppled, senza tema liked this post

  8. #28
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/so
    Posts
    1,565

    Default

    I'm with @Arcana, @skylights, and @OrangeAppled. I definitely found the "Fi" statements off-putting and not particularly relatable. From my perspective, most of the descriptions I should have found relatable were written from an foreign/outsider perspective.

  9. #29
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I'm with @Arcana, @skylights, and @OrangeAppled. I definitely found the "Fi" statements off-putting and not particularly relatable. From my perspective, most of the descriptions I should have found relatable were written from an foreign/outsider perspective.
    Maybe I should describe why I don't find the Fi description weak. It's because to me it seems open minded and scientific to keep refining judgments and even occasionally changing a view. Instead of interpretation of it as wimpy, I saw it as the Fi type continually takes in new information and may reconsider, because of Pe. Therefore Fi types may seem unsure about certain issues but extremely firm about others, and even Jung mentioned the deep well of feelings that is not always easy to put into words, or that perhaps you don't always want to share with everyone.

    The only passage I took issue with is "is it this hard for everyone"...it's not "hard" and obviously some people make snap judgments and hold on to them despite new information, and some people tend to flow more with the group opinion, while yes the Fi type can appear to only answer to him or herself, and in some cases that's entirely true.

  10. #30
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    That's because you INFP have Si as a relief function, so it sounds appealing to you probably, but an imbalanced Si dom wouldn't "enjoy" doing it, it would be an utterly unconscious disconnect from objective reality that they think is all of reality, because Si to them is a dominant function. A balanced Si type isn't necessarily that extreme, but the main reason they don't recognize themselves is because they believe that narrow view us reality. I experienced this sometimes with my grandfather who was otherwise a very intelligent man. So yes the descriptions are imperfect and were written with bias, and not only that, but functions usually don't work alone but in tandem with others, so almost any attempt for a layman to entirely isolate them may produce the effect of an imbalanced example of that type.

    I like your comparison of the FiSe type and INFP, where the Se type will eventually choose something and act upon it, and the INFP at times holds back maybe for lack of that mysterious possibility. My fear is definitely more akin to wasting time or wasting my life rather than the suspicion that the perfect choice has not yet come.

    It's weird because I didn't read the description of Fi as weak or unsure, but you and Arcana saw it that way. Of course there is more to Fi than the passage describes, but the final judgment process is what is more apparent to an outsider than a refining process of analysis of the human experience (something I strongly relate to and it's why I have an interest in history and used to be more interested in politics, as well as things like psychology, film and literature).
    I agree, the tertiary is the appeal of the Si description here, and while Si can be quite romantic and sentimental at core (not always the face we see with Si-dom, however), the individual seems to be seeking a sure reality, not a romanticized one (which is why they more frequently feel they are down to earth, have common sense, and store a library of factual knowledge). Like all introverts, they want to subvert reality to their will, instead of adjusting to it like the extroverts, and they do so by acquainting themselves with all the tiny nuances of certain slivers of reality, as if to gain mastery over it and expound all of reality from it (which is where inferior Ne comes in and comedy ensues). While the Ni type may choose a single perspective (while knowing others exist & even deeming them equally valid) to frame reality with and thus control it, the Si types chooses this sliver to master over a wider breadth, and it is just as arbitrary. They control via fulfilled expectation. Also like the Ni type, they will see it as archetypal so that it represents the wider breadth and is adequate enough to apply Je judgement with.

    Anyway, that was a tangent....

    Surely, no one would call you weak or even unsure as you come across as "strong" in your opinions; and I most certainly am not called weak or unsure. I may feel that way at times, but my shyness is read as aloof and coolly indifferent, and when I do express myself, then people IRL find me more intense (I've been told I have a "strong personality" by those who get close to me). So even outwardly, I don't think that tone fits Fi (even if it fits SOME Fi types, which is likely less to do with Fi itself than some other factor; or perhaps, it's just a particular mask some Fi types choose). Of course, it's interesting that those who seem to be ISFPs did not take it that way. I suppose the more basic, direct description focusing on behaviors might suit the Se mentality more, whereas INFPs will require a more conceptual style that focuses on mentality in order to relate. The latter INFP focus is more definitive of who I am than what the paragraph describes, so I just can't genuinely say it's a good fit for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Maybe I should describe why I don't find the Fi description weak. It's because to me it seems open minded and scientific to keep refining judgments and even occasionally changing a view. Instead of interpretation of it as wimpy, I saw it as the Fi type continually takes in new information and may reconsider, because of Pe. Therefore Fi types may seem unsure about certain issues but extremely firm about others, and even Jung mentioned the deep well of feelings that is not always easy to put into words, or that perhaps you don't always want to share with everyone.

    The only passage I took issue with is "is it this hard for everyone"...it's not "hard" and obviously some people make snap judgments and hold on to them despite new information, and some people tend to flow more with the group opinion, while yes the Fi type can appear to only answer to him or herself, and in some cases that's entirely true.
    This is already better than that description, but it is somewhat problematic when they bring too much Pe into it, because they are not successfully describing Fi itself and the description will inevitably lean Ne or Se (in this case, it must be Se). It's impossible to totally separate the two, but a better job can be done of describing Fi itself over what Fi sort of looks like from the outside through the coloring of Pe.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe
    Likes Thalassa liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. Fudjack/Dinkelaker Functional Preferences Instrument
    By heart in forum Online Personality Tests
    Replies: 384
    Last Post: 07-24-2017, 12:04 PM
  2. [JCF] Function Clarifier Test
    By Mal12345 in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 09-13-2015, 10:43 PM
  3. Functions
    By labyrinthine in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 03-07-2009, 11:35 PM
  4. Confusing Functions.
    By Athenian200 in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 07-02-2007, 02:57 PM
  5. How has developing your secondary function changed you?
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 05-27-2007, 10:44 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO