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  1. #71
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Precisely why their divorce is impossible.

    A mind determined to make sense of emotion will unavoidably allow emotion to toxify reason; reason to disrupt emotion.

    I agree with your mindset. Yet, in a purely scientific/logical sense, it isn't possible to absolutely distinguish the two.
    The better you are at objective reasoning, the less you are intoxicated by emotion. It is manifest to me that a mathematician or a philosopher is better at approaching ideas dispassionately than a philistine.

    The question is, exactly how good can we get at this?

    If we can solve complicated math problems which lay down the formulas for how all problem-solving is to be done, no reason why we should not be able t apply this to all other problem solving endeavors we encounter in the world of practical applications. Yes we will want to bypass this very impersonal process in favor of our whims, but if we go back to ensure that we reason as carefully and clearly as possible, we clearly have found a remedy for this problem.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  2. #72
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    I think you need robot legs.
    Whoops.

  3. #73
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin View Post
    My biggest fear, Bluewing, is that the sort of dispassionate thinking you are forwarding is found only in the domain of a handful of people... higher academics, yogis, people with a deep understanding of themselves...

    Meaning, imagine that I had great difficulty divorcing myself from many of the prejudices of my society until I developed deeper emotional understanding of myself.... this deeper emotional understanding of myself allowed me to more fully embrace and/or explore philosophies and thought-systems that thitherto would have been alien or downright noxious to my own. Contrariwise, most people are very grounded in their beliefs and haven't even the inclination to attempt such a revolution of understanding in themselves.

    I mean, we have as much proof as one could possibly need for a landing on the moon, and there are disbelievers. There has been so much research done on animal emotion, and yet many people persist in believing that animals don't have feelings (they remind me of those Medieval 'scientists' who would lacerate and torture dogs and marvel at the mechanical complexity of the anatomy which produced sounds which resembled cries of pain with such verisimilitude...)

    People believe what they want to believe?

    I see Plato attempting to run a nation-state and quickly running for his life...
    Agreed.

    As aforementioned. We can expect a havoc as a result of this operation. But when it is all said we will be in a much better shape to change the world for the better.

    Those who seem unwilling to think objectively no matter what will just have to adjust or die out.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #74
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    If we can solve complicated math problems which lay down the formulas for how all problem-solving is to be done, no reason why we should not be able t apply this to all other problem solving endeavors we encounter in the world of practical applications. Yes we will want to bypass this very impersonal process in favor of our whims, but if we go back to ensure that we reason as carefully and clearly as possible, we clearly have found a remedy for this problem.
    Our efficiency towards this end requires an understanding of human behavior vastly beyond our present clinical ability. To understand a mathematical dilemma, one must have absolute measure over the variables inherent within his equation - if an unknown/unexpected entity emerges, accuracy diminishes quickly...

    BW, I suspect you'd enjoy Decision Theory/Chaos Mathematics. One our principal obstacles in constructing a credible A.I. is our contemporary inability to effectively plan out all potential behaviors for a truly creative program to endeavor to commit.

    We need minds like yours in this field.

  5. #75
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Our efficiency towards this end requires an understanding of human behavior vastly beyond our present clinical ability. To understand a mathematical dilemma, one must have absolute measure over the variables inherent within his equation - if an unknown/unexpected entity emerges, accuracy diminishes quickly...

    BW, I suspect you'd enjoy Decision Theory/Chaos Mathematics. One our principal obstacles in constructing a credible A.I. is our contemporary inability to effectively plan out all potential behaviors for a truly creative program to endeavor to commit.
    We certainly will not be able to dispassionately analyze all things. But we must make the effort to analyze as much as possible.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #76
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    He fights against what he doesn't understand. Out of fear probably.
    As do all of us.
    I submit to you the controversy surrounding BlueWing as evidence towards this end.

    We are all the same.

  7. #77
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post

    As aforementioned. We can expect a havoc as a result of this operation. But when it is all said we will be in a much better shape to change the world for the better.

    Those who seem unwilling to think objectively no matter what will just have to adjust or die out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    BW, I suspect you'd enjoy Decision Theory/Chaos Mathematics. One our principal obstacles in constructing a credible A.I. is our contemporary inability to effectively plan out all potential behaviors for a truly creative program to endeavor to commit.

    We need minds like yours in this field.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    We certainly will not be able to dispassionately analyze all things. But we must make the effort to analyze as much as possible.


    This is why I want to be a professor... lock myself away from the world with like minds, work on the problems of the world, and make forays into regular society the way astronauts make forays into space...


    The problem is that with disciplines like game or chaos theory, one always comes up against the the asymptote of infinite variability. It becomes easier to resort to Dao De Jing-like apothegms which glibly pronounce on whole fields of inquiry with cutely-phrased aporias or insoluble dilemmas.
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

  8. #78
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    As do all of us.
    I submit to you the controversy surrounding BlueWing as evidence towards this end.

    We are all the same.
    What?
    Oh.

    Meh. I don't fight what I don't understand. I try to understand what I don't understand...if I'm interested that is.

    We're all the same in that we often fear what we don't understand.

  9. #79
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    We're all the same in that we often fear what we don't understand.
    Precisely.

    That is why we have nothing to fear.

  10. #80
    Senior Member Leysing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    He fights against what he doesn't understand. Out of fear probably.
    Generally all the Ts I have known deeply are very afraid of their emotions. My father, a strong T, is a good example: when he occasionally, while stressed, lets his emotions out uncontrolled, he beats my ESFJ mother 10-0 in pure drama. He is very detached from his own emotions in a quite comical and sometimes scary way.

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