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  1. #151
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    That depends on the context as you have mentioned before. We must sit down and analyze each situation the best we can and make the decision appropriate for what we are dealing with. Take it on case by case basis.

    As you point out, there are difficulties establishing a system in such a clinical context, yet this does not at all show that these difficulties are insurmountable. Clearly, some will be very difficult to overcome, yet many of them we should be able to conquer. Our hitherto success in philosophy and science seems to attest to this.
    You know what would interest me Bluey - seriously now? Take three government policies that are closest to your heart - I do not want to impose which ones; you may choose them - and tell me how you would use this rational decision-making process to create policy that is better than the current one. Then we can talk about it. I think you are right when you say we have to deal with issues on a case-by-case basis. So choose three and provide alternatives. That would be interesting, and I look forward to your reply.
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  2. #152
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    I haven't read all the posts in this thread.

    I was just wondering if people understood the distiction between feelings and the descision making function of Feeling.

    ?
    I have really asked Bluey to first clarify what he means - now I would like him to give me some practical applications. Let's see if the guy responds.
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  3. #153
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    The MBTI is thusly inapplicable for consultation.
    The insight we can derive from MBTI so far is that emotions suffocate dispassionate reasoning. In order to think clearly, we must follow the logical form carefully. If we are not dispassionate enough, we will stray from the logical form in favor of embracing chains of reasoning, premises and conclusions favorable to our personal values?



    Do you hold for this claim to be false?
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  4. #154
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    here's an idea, bluewing you should just create your own type theory. you can call it bwti. all the definitions can be yours and yours alone and your own way of seeing things will lay the foundation upon which all others must build.

    that would be more productive than arguing over definitions and/or limitations of mbti. i think you would get a better response by creating something of your own and labeling it as such rather than trying to shit all over mbti(central).

    just a thought.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by miked277 View Post
    here's an idea, bluewing you should just create your own type theory. you can call it bwti. all the definitions can be yours and yours alone and your own way of seeing things will lay the foundation upon which all others must build.

    that would be more productive than arguing over definitions and/or limitations of mbti. i think you would get a better response by creating something of your own and labeling it as such rather than trying to shit all over mbti(central).

    just a thought.
    Genius!

  6. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Do you hold for this claim to be false?
    It is a multi-part claim. I know this wasn't addressed to me. However, if we are following a universal form, the logic should be the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    The insight we can derive from MBTI so far is that emotions suffocate dispassionate reasoning.
    First, the use of the word "suffocate" either adds no content or makes the statement false if interpreted literally. Emotions do not "suffocate" nor is it possible for dispassionate reasoning to get "suffocated." Therefore giving critical thinking requires interpreting it as an analogy, but I believe it do be redundant.

    Second, how is that the type indicator teaches us this? It is simply a test, that by design, places T and F on scale to decide preference. However, as is mentioned often in the literature, scoring an F does not indicate lack of logic. Again, the part about MBTI giving us a particular insight is highly suspect. It also seems irrelevant to the central claim you were making. If MBTI does not give us the insight in question, your statement is false. Therefore, I will remove that part also, and analyze what is left.

    If we were to replace it with the statement, "Emotions are incompatible with dispationate reasoning." The statement may appear to be true for the simple reason that being "dispasionate" is incompatible with emotion. However, I submit a paradigm where "calm" is an emotion. It is a state of chemical activity, as are anger, anxiousness, depression, and others. Emotions are simply reflect our internal chemical states.

    So at this point, I have interpreted your statement as, "Strong emotions are incompatible with a state of calm."

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    In order to think clearly, we must follow the logical form carefully.
    I interpret thinking clearly to mean thinking accurately. Even if we follow logical form carelessly, we can still be accurate (simply because of prior practice and luck for examples). So once again, to give you the benefit of the doubt, I interpret your statement to mean, "Taking care in our reasoning aids in our accuracy of our reasoning."

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    If we are not dispassionate enough, we will stray from the logical form in favor of embracing chains of reasoning, premises and conclusions favorable to our personal values?
    This part takes the most interpretation. Generally speaking, the choice of premises is the most difficult part of reasoning. Care must be taken to chose a set of premises that are "obvious." This is often a difficult task.

    Nevertheless, loosing composure does not necessrily lead to poor reasoning. One reason, is that many people are so well practiced in situations so that they will reason accurately even when their sympathetic nervous system is at full arrousal.

    But if I interpret your statement as "Stress is less conducive to accurate reasoning." I would agree with it. However, I have weakened your initial statement a lot to get to that agreement. Since you are making the claim, the burden of proof is on you to prove the initial stronger claim.

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  7. #157
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    It is a multi-part claim. I know this wasn't addressed to me. However, if we are following a universal form, the logic should be the same.



    First, the use of the word "suffocate" either adds no content or makes the statement false if interpreted literally. Emotions do not "suffocate" nor is it possible for dispassionate reasoning to get "suffocated." Therefore giving critical thinking requires interpreting it as an analogy, but I believe it do be redundant.

    Second, how is that the type indicator teaches us this? It is simply a test, that by design, places T and F on scale to decide preference. However, as is mentioned often in the literature, scoring an F does not indicate lack of logic. Again, the part about MBTI giving us a particular insight is highly suspect. It also seems irrelevant to the central claim you were making. If MBTI does not give us the insight in question, your statement is false. Therefore, I will remove that part also, and analyze what is left.

    If we were to replace it with the statement, "Emotions are incompatible with dispationate reasoning." The statement may appear to be true for the simple reason that being "dispasionate" is incompatible with emotion. However, I submit a paradigm where "calm" is an emotion. It is a state of chemical activity, as are anger, anxiousness, depression, and others. Emotions are simply reflect our internal chemical states.

    So at this point, I have interpreted your statement as, "Strong emotions are incompatible with a state of calm."



    I interpret thinking clearly to mean thinking accurately. Even if we follow logical form carelessly, we can still be accurate (simply because of prior practice and luck for examples). So once again, to give you the benefit of the doubt, I interpret your statement to mean, "Taking care in our reasoning aids in our accuracy of our reasoning."



    This part takes the most interpretation. Generally speaking, the choice of premises is the most difficult part of reasoning. Care must be taken to chose a set of premises that are "obvious." This is often a difficult task.

    Nevertheless, loosing composure does not necessrily lead to poor reasoning. One reason, is that many people are so well practiced in situations so that they will reason accurately even when their sympathetic nervous system is at full arrousal.

    But if I interpret your statement as "Stress is less conducive to accurate reasoning." I would agree with it. However, I have weakened your initial statement a lot to get to that agreement. Since you are making the claim, the burden of proof is on you to prove the initial stronger claim.
    It really is not that complicated. My point was when your emotions run high, it is difficult for you to think clearly.

    Do we agree on this.

    Lets just work with this for now.

    Will slowly get to all the other stuff step by step later.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  8. #158
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    It really is not that complicated. My point was when your emotions run high, it is difficult for you to think clearly.
    This is true.

    If that's your whole point then why drag Myers Briggs Feeling into it?

  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    It really is not that complicated. My point was when your emotions run high, it is difficult for you to think clearly.

    Do we agree on this.
    Yes, I agree with this. It is indeed difficult for me to think clearly when my emotions run high.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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  10. #160
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Yes, I agree with this. It is indeed difficult for me to think clearly when my emotions run high.
    Same. Well some of the time...it depends on the emotion...sadness and happiness never seem to affect me in that department. Anger, fear, and frustration seem to though.

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