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  1. #121
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Well okay, maybe the guy was kidding or being sarcastic. It is always hard to tell online. I'll give this fellow the benefit of the doubt and say he was just kidding around. But seriously, folks, his comments were way below the belt.

    So I took off the references to the National Socialists, okay. I do apologize, Bluey - it was probably inappropriate for me to make such an insinuation. And just because you were being a jerk does not give me the right to do so.

    However, I really wish this guy would keep it objective. It's so much easier for me to be objective or at least a bit more rational then. Dang, I need to calm down....

    <sigh>
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  2. #122
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Well, Nolla, let's be fair - at least he called it what it was for once: namely, an extreme solution....

    Okay, fine...I shouldn't have said that...but DANG...what a statement. All feelers should be taken out of office, denied jobs, and finally be allowed to starve!!!! That's worse than what the Nazis did.

    You want to call his argument rational?!?!?! I hardly think so. And if he wants to change government policies, I will rationally argue day and night with no jibes whatsoever with regard to the feasibility of certain policies, but this guy just wants to attack us. And if we ever say a word to an NT, all of a sudden the panzers come out and there's talk of inappropriate conduct.

    It's totally unfair, unrealistic, and uncalled for. <takes some deep breaths>

    Dude! What are you talking about!? He never said any of these things! He was calling for an approach to policy which cut out as much value-based thinking as possible. He wasn't advocating starvation and punishment for Feelers. You're honestly not reading what he wrote but reading into what he wrote!

    If you confer with the first post, he stipulates that certain activities, such as the discussion of policies, should be dominated by strict logical inference and cleansed of as much unnecessary emotional input as possible in order to reach the best-possible solution to various problems. You're completely out of line attributing Nazism to his ideas.

    Frankly, Nazism was the height of Feeling function gone mad, when a little man was so inflamed by irrational jealousies and phobias that he concocted a completely baseless philosophical agenda and used it as verbal justification for his crimes against humanity.
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

  3. #123
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Well okay, maybe the guy was kidding or being sarcastic. It is always hard to tell online. I'll give this fellow the benefit of the doubt and say he was just kidding around. But seriously, folks, his comments were way below the belt.

    So I took off the references to the National Socialists, okay. I do apologize, Bluey - it was probably inappropriate for me to make such an insinuation. And just because you were being a jerk does not give me the right to do so.

    However, I really wish this guy would keep it objective. It's so much easier for me to be objective or at least a bit more rational then. Dang, I need to calm down....

    <sigh>
    You've been the least objective this whole time. I've hardly seen you make one direct rebuttal of his argument. Instead, you fly off the hook and, basically, call him a Nazi.
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

  4. #124
    Senor Membrane
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    Well, he DOES say that feelers should starve... that is enough for me to not take him seriously.

  5. #125
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Well... if he did say that, my opinion will stand amended, but I can't find where he said Feelers should starve, and even if he did, I don't think your responses have been very mature.

    ____

    I frankly don't agree with much of what Bluewing's saying, particularly when it comes to the manner of instruction in the arts and literary fields, but it seems like the longer a thread continues the more likely it is that name-calling and finger-pointing take center-stage and push aside reasoned debate. And this is where an important moral can be derived from Bluewing's OP rant.

    But I generally do agree that controversially-value based judgments ought not be allowed in civic institutions and those that exist ought to be debated with a minimum of rhetoric and a maximum of carefully-laid out reasoning. I, however, am far more moderate in my view than Bluewing.

    _________________

    The WHOLE POINT is not whether I agree with Bluewing, which with careful consideration I do not when it comes to some of his policies, but his idea that a mass movement to reduce unnecessary emotional input in public policy is one I firmly believe in. The posts on and the name of this thread are testament to its correctness. I'm ready to give reasons why, and if someone disagrees, he/she ought to say why not instead of name-calling.
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

  6. #126
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Listen, Samuel, I did try to debate with him. I said what I did not like and what I DID like, which I totally would not have done if I just wanted to banter the guy for the heck of it.

    What got me upset is when he just started taking pot shots for the hell of it. And dang it all anyhow, some of what he said went beyond elitist and it did remind me of it. But I should have just kept it to myself, I guess.

    What I do not understand is the merit of having a domestic or foreign policy devoid of feeling. How can you even do it? We are talking about human beings, here, not machines.

    Trust me, I am the farthest thing from a socialist hippie flower power junkie. I also think that the government should stop wasting our tax dollars and start analyzing whether or not our policy is correct. I think the American government should stop trying to "help" countries when all they do is hurt themselves and everyone else. And I agree that idealist policies are dangerous in government.

    But as I said before, the solution is not as easy as: Make rational thinkers leaders. Get rid of all emotional-based leadership. Take down leaders who make intuitively-based decisions. Base your decisions only on logical facts. Hell what happens when you do not have logical facts. Under that premise, I would like to see what he would have done in Cuba during the crisis, for instance. I would like to see what he would have done during the Great depression. I would like to see what he would have done during the Civil war.

    Sure, I agree that idealist-based leadership is ineffective at best and dangerous and detrimental at worst. Take a look at FDR. Take a look at GWB. Take a look at Vietnam. At Korea. At WWI, WWII - conflicts which were not ours!!!!!!!!! Take a look at the Cold War - Feeling at its worst.

    BUT the solution is not to ATTACK feeling. The solution is to achieve a balance where neither F nor T dominates domestic and foreign policy. Both are deadly and dangerous when taken too far.
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  7. #127
    Senior Member Leysing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Not everyone is rational? Too bad. We are going to set up a society in a way that they will have to be rational, or starve!
    Here.

    (Who "we?")

  8. #128
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Listen, Samuel, I did try to debate with him. I said what I did not like and what I DID like, which I totally would not have done if I just wanted to banter the guy for the heck of it.
    Alright... as I said, I also disagree with much of what Bluewing posted, but I felt emotions went a little far. Indeed, I may have gone a little far in defending Bluewing.

    Maybe I'm just upset at how this whole discussion went, and looking back at some of Bluewing's later postings, I can see why people were upset.

    <sigh>
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

  9. #129
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Furthermore, how can you possibly ameliorate the school system to the extent where feeling is taken out of art and literature??? Without feeling, there is no art or literature. Is he saying we should only read literature as if it were a mathematical equation, or did I read him incorrectly? How can you understand art, literature, or any subject without feeling?

    I agree that socialization to the extent which our schools have implemented is incorrect. I do not believe it is a good idea to force students to accept an ideology or suffer the consequences in grades. I hated the fact that I had to throw up what my teachers taught me and did not get the chance to express my own ideas.

    However, one cannot take such a radical approach and irradicate feeling, especially in subjects that are based on the human condition. What, what oh what is driving such an irrational argument?????
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  10. #130
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leysing View Post
    Here.

    (Who "we?")
    I submit.

    <natam natam anyatram gamishyaami> <drooping I shall go elsewhere>
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

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