User Tag List

First 8910111220 Last

Results 91 to 100 of 216

  1. #91
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5/8
    Socionics
    ENTp None
    Posts
    4,754

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Surely we can put emotions aside long enough to figure out what's truly going on...

    Just because we can't permanently escape emotional reactions doesn't mean every logical architecture is to be ruined by the intrusion of emotion.

    We can't escape gravity, but we can leave the earth.
    This is very true, Nocapszy. Very true indeed.

    The thing with gravity is that it is a digit; an extension of interdimensionality.

    1 is a point
    2 is a line
    3 is a cube
    4 is spacetime
    5 is gravitometric energy

    5 depends on 1-4 for atoms; cells; volume and location.

    It just wouldn't be the same without them.

  2. #92
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    1,211

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin View Post
    I disagree, Bluewing... for the simple reason that in every logical argument there must be premises, axioms, which govern the inferential steps which ensue. These foundational statements of accepted truths and governing principles, the premises/axioms which undergird all logical thinking thereafter, must be based in some part on a value judgment.
    How can that which undergrids all be based upon anything?
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  3. #93
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    1,026

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    How can that which undergrids all be based upon anything?
    If it's a primitive value then it's self-supporting.
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

  4. #94
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    1,026

    Default

    I think a problem here is that we're confusing monotonic and non-monotonic logics... the Feeling function is imperative in a non-monotonic logic, where one new proposition can overturn an entire system and affect the truth-values of the other propositions at hand... also, we're dealing with non-monotonic systems because we have to accept best-fit hypotheses and provisional conclusions in an attempt to further our knowledge. We don't have a monotonic, foundational progression into new knowledge.
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

  5. #95
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    1,211

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin View Post
    Because it's a primitive value.
    Okaaayyy.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  6. #96
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    1,026

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Okaaayyy.
    I'll take that as gladsome assent. I'll also point out I edited my post, so instead of simply reading:

    "Because it's a primitive value." it now reads "If it's a primitive value then it's self-supporting."

    That should make my point clearer. Primitive values are the unmoved movers of logic.
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

  7. #97
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin View Post
    I think a problem here is that we're confusing monotonic and non-monotonic logics... the Feeling function is imperative in a non-monotonic logic, where one new proposition can overturn an entire system and affect the truth-values of the other propositions at hand... also, we're dealing with non-monotonic systems because we have to accept best-fit hypotheses and provisional conclusions in an attempt to further our knowledge. We don't have a monotonic, foundational progression into new knowledge.
    Why would non-monotonic logic involve the feeling function any more than monotonic logic? The fact that gaining new information can reduce the set of what is known in a non-monotonic logic system doesn't really have anything to do with judgments of value, which to my knowledge is the domain of the feeling function.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #98
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    1,211

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin View Post
    That should make my point clearer. Primitive values are the unmoved movers of logic.
    Sure. Whatever rocks your boat, just don't ask me to have any part of it. Moving logic isn't my kind of thing.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  9. #99
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    1,211

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin View Post
    I think a problem here is that we're confusing monotonic and non-monotonic logics...
    There are many problems here and many causes of confusion. This is not one of them, or at least it wasn't until wrote a message about it.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  10. #100
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    xNFP
    Posts
    6,885

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin View Post
    My biggest fear, Bluewing, is that the sort of dispassionate thinking you are forwarding is found only in the domain of a handful of people... higher academics, yogis, people with a deep understanding of themselves...

    Meaning, imagine that I had great difficulty divorcing myself from many of the prejudices of my society until I developed deeper emotional understanding of myself.... this deeper emotional understanding of myself allowed me to more fully embrace and/or explore philosophies and thought-systems that thitherto would have been alien or downright noxious to my own. Contrariwise, most people are very grounded in their beliefs and haven't even the inclination to attempt such a revolution of understanding in themselves.

    I mean, we have as much proof as one could possibly need for a landing on the moon, and there are disbelievers. There has been so much research done on animal emotion, and yet many people persist in believing that animals don't have feelings (they remind me of those Medieval 'scientists' who would lacerate and torture dogs and marvel at the mechanical complexity of the anatomy which produced sounds which resembled cries of pain with such verisimilitude...)

    People believe what they want to believe?

    I see Plato attempting to run a nation-state and quickly running for his life...
    Very, VERY good point! That's exactly what I was thinking and attempting to illustrate.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

Similar Threads

  1. Thinking/Feeling and Mercy
    By Asterion in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 12-31-2011, 04:58 PM
  2. What personality type do you think he has?
    By Tish211 in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-05-2011, 06:32 AM
  3. [INTP] I think Feelings are important. And I'm an INTP
    By Cypocalypse in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 02-19-2009, 04:44 PM
  4. Thinking/Feeling game: Same Difference
    By rivercrow in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 05-14-2007, 08:17 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO