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  1. #81
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    I would like to be ISTP, they seem like very "cool", aware people, better task focus than INTPs and seem to fit in better socially.



    I am very skeptical of these claims, the way introverts and extroverts are defined is likely to be erroneous in those studies, calling a friend or walking with a friend has little to do with cognitive extroversion.

    All extroversion means is that you are oriented towards the object, there are many introvert "types" that would easily be mistaken for extroverts by these colloquial notions. Carl Jung described himself is a very sociable person but he clearly categorized himself as a introvert(likely introverted thinking dominant) while he described Freud as more socially reclusive but a clear extrovert(more specifically extroverted thinking dominant).

    I suspect what these studies are really measuring is emotional stability/neuroticism as an independent personality dimension, a shy anxious person is being lumped in as an introvert when this is more to do with social anxiety. You might argue that social anxiety is correlated with introversion but it seems more like introversion is being equated to being socially anxious/reclusive/negative moods, ect., I mean if a lot of researchers can't even define introverts and extroverts right their studies and the conclusions they produce are crappy from the start. All these studies are telling me is that people who are more socially isolated tend to be less happy, but that is a very different beast than the introversion/extroversion Jung was talking about.

    There are a lot of socially immature/awkward extroverts out there that would be erroneously classified as introverts by these studies.
    Did you see the keirsey study? These are people who have self-typed as the various types... there is a strong correlation beterrn intreoversion and extroversion in the chart, which I have witnessed myself, experienced myself etc

    I don't think you can entirely separate socially isolated from introvert, however... extroverts are way more likely to be around people and have a social system of support. You can't just pretend that there would likely be no correlation... I've seen it in my life, I"ve seen it on threads in the ENFP sub versus INFP sub and in all the subs of the introverted type and its extroverted counterpart. There is no doubt that introverts seem to experience more isolation and social anxiety than their extroverted counterparts. This is a conclusion that has come up again and again. I find it hard to believe that there is no truth to it.

  2. #82
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    ENTJ, 8w7 with a 4 fix.

    That would be a force to be reckoned with!

  3. #83
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    Hmm I would never want to give up my T or my P, but I think ENTP would be cool!

  4. #84
    Gryffindor Prefect OneLovelyAdventure's Avatar
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    I love being an ENFP, but sometimes I wish I had stronger T. I don't necessarily want to say I wish I were an ENTP, but they definitely seem to have everything together without being too sensitive like their fellow Ne-doms (aka us.) You guys are just so cool! You're so witty and clever and you aren't as totally absent-minded as we are! *admires from afar due to intimidation*
    "You can't help respecting anybody who can spell 'Tuesday,' even if he doesn't spell it right, but spelling isn't everything. There are days when spelling 'Tuesday' simply doesn't count." -- Winnie the Pooh

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  5. #85
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    ALL OF THEM!
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.
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  6. #86
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneLovelyAdventure View Post
    I love being an ENFP, but sometimes I wish I had stronger T. I don't necessarily want to say I wish I were an ENTP, but they definitely seem to have everything together without being too sensitive like their fellow Ne-doms (aka us.) You guys are just so cool! You're so witty and clever and you aren't as totally absent-minded as we are! *admires from afar due to intimidation*
    Wait, what? Something about witty and clever? Was too busy spacing out to catch all that....
    Likes OneLovelyAdventure liked this post

  7. #87
    Gryffindor Prefect OneLovelyAdventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Wait, what? Something about witty and clever? Was too busy spacing out to catch all that....
    I find you guys so charming and funny. All the ENTPs I know are people I have been/are very close with, and they seem pretty down to earth. My ENTP friends mock me for spacing out, but I guess dom-Ne makes sense for you guys to space out too. Either way, you absolutely are witty and funny and I can't get enough of you people. You're lovely, really.
    "You can't help respecting anybody who can spell 'Tuesday,' even if he doesn't spell it right, but spelling isn't everything. There are days when spelling 'Tuesday' simply doesn't count." -- Winnie the Pooh

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  8. #88
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle View Post
    Did you see the keirsey study? These are people who have self-typed as the various types... there is a strong correlation beterrn intreoversion and extroversion in the chart, which I have witnessed myself, experienced myself etc
    I have a lot of problems with keirsey, I am of the opinion that someone's "type" cannot be assessed with some 20 minute personality test, I think it takes years of self-assessment and study of cognitive functions. I think he focuses too much on superficial behavioral traits and not enough on core motivations which I think are far more important to assessing introversion, extroversion, thinking, feeling, ect. If you hang out with your special social circle because they help reinforce your subjective attitude then you are hanging out with these people for introverted reasons even though this would likely be categorized as extroversion by systems like The Big Five, ect.

    I don't think you can entirely separate socially isolated from introvert, however... extroverts are way more likely to be around people and have a social system of support. You can't just pretend that there would likely be no correlation... I've seen it in my life, I"ve seen it on threads in the ENFP sub versus INFP sub and in all the subs of the introverted type and its extroverted counterpart. There is no doubt that introverts seem to experience more isolation and social anxiety than their extroverted counterparts. This is a conclusion that has come up again and again. I find it hard to believe that there is no truth to it.
    The problems is the way extroversion is defined by most of these studies(which probably uses the Big Five tests) includes positive emotions in the extroversion dimension, so this is very circular reasoning here. Also you made the claim that introverts are sadder or whatever, even if introverts are somehow "less" happy than extroverts that does not imply they are sadder/experience more negative emotions, it is implied by the Big Five that an emotionally stable introvert would be more "neutral" in moods while an emotionally unstable extrovert would experience wild mood swing between extreme highs and lows.

    This also tests the credibility of many of these personality measures because extroversion and emotional stability would not be the independent personality scales they are supposed to be, I never said there was no correlation between introversion and social anxiety/isolation(I think there is a loose correlation) but I am very skeptical about the way these studies are measuring extroversion, introversion and other personality dimensions and these are what you are using as "proof" of your claims.

    I think people who are often "neurotic" tend to be heavily unbalanced introverts and extroverts, hence the consistently reclusive, melancholic introverts and the high strung, volatile extroverts.
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  9. #89
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I tend to think too much of the weaknesses of the type I am, I wish I was more like, to give a fictional example, Sherlock Holmes, who I believe was an ISTJ, or, to give a factual example, Theodore Roosevelt, who I'm not sure about type wise, and maybe its more to do with his habits of reading, adventuring and managing to do and achieve so much in a single lifetime than anything else.

  10. #90
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five sounds View Post
    ALL OF THEM!
    Haha...so many choices...so little time!

    I like being an ENFP but I secretly dream of being an ENTJ or being an ENFP enneagram 7 or 8 instead of a 4.

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