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  1. #91
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    I have a lot of problems with keirsey, I am of the opinion that someone's "type" cannot be assessed with some 20 minute personality test, I think it takes years of self-assessment and study of cognitive functions. I think he focuses too much on superficial behavioral traits and not enough on core motivations which I think are far more important to assessing introversion, extroversion, thinking, feeling, ect. If you hang out with your special social circle because they help reinforce your subjective attitude then you are hanging out with these people for introverted reasons even though this would likely be categorized as extroversion by systems like The Big Five, ect.



    The problems is the way extroversion is defined by most of these studies(which probably uses the Big Five tests) includes positive emotions in the extroversion dimension, so this is very circular reasoning here. Also you made the claim that introverts are sadder or whatever, even if introverts are somehow "less" happy than extroverts that does not imply they are sadder/experience more negative emotions, it is implied by the Big Five that an emotionally stable introvert would be more "neutral" in moods while an emotionally unstable extrovert would experience wild mood swing between extreme highs and lows.

    This also tests the credibility of many of these personality measures because extroversion and emotional stability would not be the independent personality scales they are supposed to be, I never said there was no correlation between introversion and social anxiety/isolation(I think there is a loose correlation) but I am very skeptical about the way these studies are measuring extroversion, introversion and other personality dimensions and these are what you are using as "proof" of your claims.

    I think people who are often "neurotic" tend to be heavily unbalanced introverts and extroverts, hence the consistently reclusive, melancholic introverts and the high strung, volatile extroverts.
    we'll have to agree to disagree. my ENFP friends describe me and other INFPs I know as sadder versions of them... I've seen the whole sadder introvert thing play out a lot irl. i don't think you can disregard all of the evidence just because it isn't 100% perfect. there have been MANY introvert/extrovert studies and they all have had the same conclusions

  2. #92
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneLovelyAdventure View Post
    I find you guys so charming and funny. All the ENTPs I know are people I have been/are very close with, and they seem pretty down to earth. My ENTP friends mock me for spacing out, but I guess dom-Ne makes sense for you guys to space out too. Either way, you absolutely are witty and funny and I can't get enough of you people. You're lovely, really.
    Well, I would wish to be ENFP if I had to wish to be another type, so the flattery is mutual I suppose

  3. #93
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle View Post
    we'll have to agree to disagree. my ENFP friends describe me and other INFPs I know as sadder versions of them... I've seen the whole sadder introvert thing play out a lot irl. i don't think you can disregard all of the evidence just because it isn't 100% perfect. there have been MANY introvert/extrovert studies and they all have had the same conclusions
    Your ENFP friends are probably enneagram type 7s too, which kind of adds another layer to this. 7s are like Princess Unikitty of the Lego Movie, they amp up the expression of happy by any means necessary. Type 4s are like the opposite of this, emotional authenticity and whatnot. I'm not sure that ENTJs seem any happier than INTJs, for example. Extraversion may be linked to the expression of positive emotions but not necessarily to the experience of them.

  4. #94
    Senior Member Yaru's Avatar
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    I´d say ENTP INTP INTJ maybe ENTJ

    Personality traits: a summary by Yar'Chun
    Introverted - Independent bitch
    Extraverted - Weak
    Intuitive - Creative 4th dimension spacelord
    Sensing - Dumb
    Feeling - Such confused wow
    Thinking - Smart
    Judjing - Nel mio intimo c'è Chilly
    Perceiving - Oooh butterflies


  5. #95
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Your ENFP friends are probably enneagram type 7s too, which kind of adds another layer to this. 7s are like Princess Unikitty of the Lego Movie, they amp up the expression of happy by any means necessary. Type 4s are like the opposite of this, emotional authenticity and whatnot. I'm not sure that ENTJs seem any happier than INTJs, for example. Extraversion may be linked to the expression of positive emotions but not necessarily to the experience of them.
    In what I've observed and heard from all kinds of friends (introverted and extroverted) it's both. With regard to ENTJs and INTJs, I've actually noticed that most ENTJs do seem to have a higher baseline happiness because their happiness is very contingent on conventional work goals and whatnot, which due to their forceful determined nature they usually make happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Your ENFP friends are probably enneagram type 7s too, which kind of adds another layer to this. 7s are like Princess Unikitty of the Lego Movie, they amp up the expression of happy by any means necessary. Type 4s are like the opposite of this, emotional authenticity and whatnot. I'm not sure that ENTJs seem any happier than INTJs, for example. Extraversion may be linked to the expression of positive emotions but not necessarily to the experience of them.
    In what I've observed and heard from all kinds of friends (introverted and extroverted) it's both. With regard to ENTJs and INTJs, I've actually noticed that most ENTJs do seem to have a higher baseline happiness because their happiness is very contingent on conventional work goals and whatnot, which due to their forceful determined nature they usually make happen.

  6. #96
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    XSFP.
    4w3 6w5 1w2 sx/sp ISFP

    RLOAX (don't do it)
    Melancholic Hufflepuff
    A lonely island where only what is permitted to move moves, becomes an ideal. Jung

    Kiss Kiss [johari] Bang Bang [nohari]

  7. #97
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle View Post
    we'll have to agree to disagree. my ENFP friends describe me and other INFPs I know as sadder versions of them... I've seen the whole sadder introvert thing play out a lot irl. i don't think you can disregard all of the evidence just because it isn't 100% perfect. there have been MANY introvert/extrovert studies and they all have had the same conclusions
    All you are doing is confusing melancholic introverts(or people) with all introverts, I have never really thought of myself as a "sad" or "moody" person but I'm not a bright sunshine bubbly person either, my moods are generally calm and neutral most of the time. I think INTPs specifically are probably more phlegmatic in temperament and moods. Many of the extroverts I personally know are not what I would consider happy, more like antsy and easily agitated. If what you are saying is true then neuroticism and extroversion/introversion are not independent personality dimensions, you are literally equating neuroticism with introversion, I don't think there's a lot of good evidence to back that up(partly because it would undermine the very studies themselves).

    The very tricky part of this is that "depressed" individuals will superficially display more stereotypical introverted behaviors(withdrawn, apathetic, ect.) but there is important distinctions to be made, introverts shun extravenous stimulus to focus more in depth while depression is characterized by lose of pleasure in activities(anhedonia) and low mood. It is probably that "low mood" part that can be confused with the introvert's need the withdraw to focus more, introverts are generally more careful and more through with their thoughts.
    Reserved Calm Unstructured Egocentric Inquisitive Clown

    Johari Nohari
    Likes Bknight, diMaggio, m1959 liked this post

  8. #98
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    INFJ. ISFJ are seen as dumb.

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