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[MBTI General] Je-doms and Paranoia

doppelganger

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Sep 16, 2014
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93
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INTP
I've perused a few threads on type and paranoia and the Je-doms are seldom, if ever, mentioned. On the one hand, this is not surprising since Je are rational functions that closely reflect social norms and are thereby reinforced--it's hard to be paranoid when you believe the same things most other people do. On the other hand, Je-doms do have irrational auxiliary functions (Ni and Si) which are often connected to paranoia in Pi-doms; so one might expect the influence of these functions to produce some form of paranoia.

What is your experience with paranoia in Je-doms? How do you compare it to paranoia in Pi-doms? Or in other types? And how do Je-doms respond to their paranoia and how does this differ from the response of Pi-doms and of other types?
 

á´…eparted

passages
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Overall, I don't consider myself a paranoid person. I do have problems with uncertainty, but that's it.
 

Mole

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I've perused a few threads on type and paranoia and the Je-doms are seldom, if ever, mentioned. On the one hand, this is not surprising since Je are rational functions that closely reflect social norms and are thereby reinforced--it's hard to be paranoid when you believe the same things most other people do. On the other hand, Je-doms do have irrational auxiliary functions (Ni and Si) which are often connected to paranoia in Pi-doms; so one might expect the influence of these functions to produce some form of paranoia.

What is your experience with paranoia in Je-doms? How do you compare it to paranoia in Pi-doms? Or in other types? And how do Je-doms respond to their paranoia and how does this differ from the response of Pi-doms and of other types?

I am rather interested in paranoia. I have met paranoia in those suffering from diagnosed paranoid schizophrenia.

At first I thought paranoia was psychological preparation to attack, but have recently come to see it is more sophisticated.

The person suffering from paranoia believes they are under attack while those around them do not believe they are under attack. So the person suffering from paranoia seeks to provoke an attack to prove their paranoia is real.

And the person suffering from paranoia is uncannily brilliant at provoking an attack and so validating their own paranoia. "See, I was right", they say.

We have the perfect example in Canberra where a person suffering from paranoid schizophrenia provoked the police to attack him and put him in jail for twenty years even though he was innocent.

Paranoia is as deep and powerful trance which is used to entrance those around the paranoid. And under the influence of this induced trance we attack the paranoid and so validate their paranoia.

Babies and children need to be validated by their parents in order to survive. And all during our lives we seek to be validated by those around us. So the worst suffering of those suffering from paranoia is not being validated by those around them, and in fact being invalidated.

And when we are invalidated our survival instinct is aroused, and we become brilliant in getting ourselves validated, even if it means provoking attack in the case of the paranoid.
 

five sounds

MyPeeSmellsLikeCoffee247
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ENFP
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I think it comes from the aux and that those with Pi dominance are, at normal levels of health, more paranoid.

:2cents:
 

pmj85

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Mar 11, 2011
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My wife is an ENFJ, and she does like to check and double check things. She also has issues with stuff that just don't bother me; for example, it really irks her if people catch a glimpse of her leaving or entering the house / car, etc. Call her paranoid, however, and she'll flip a shit.
 

five sounds

MyPeeSmellsLikeCoffee247
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sx/sp
My wife is an ENFJ, and she does like to check and double check things. She also has issues with stuff that just don't bother me; for example, it really irks her if people catch a glimpse of her leaving or entering the house / car, etc. Call her paranoid, however, and she'll flip a shit.

That could be a woman feeling vulnerable. It's a not type related thing that women unfortunately experience in this world.
 

doppelganger

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INTP
I am rather interested in paranoia. I have met paranoia in those suffering from diagnosed paranoid schizophrenia.

At first I thought paranoia was psychological preparation to attack, but have recently come to see it is more sophisticated.

The person suffering from paranoia believes they are under attack while those around them do not believe they are under attack. So the person suffering from paranoia seeks to provoke an attack to prove their paranoia is real.

And the person suffering from paranoia is uncannily brilliant at provoking an attack and so validating their own paranoia. "See, I was right", they say.

We have the perfect example in Canberra where a person suffering from paranoid schizophrenia provoked the police to attack him and put him in jail for twenty years even though he was innocent.

Paranoia is as deep and powerful trance which is used to entrance those around the paranoid. And under the influence of this induced trance we attack the paranoid and so validate their paranoia.

Babies and children need to be validated by their parents in order to survive. And all during our lives we seek to be validated by those around us. So the worst suffering of those suffering from paranoia is not being validated by those around them, and in fact being invalidated.

And when we are invalidated our survival instinct is aroused, and we become brilliant in getting ourselves validated, even if it means provoking attack in the case of the paranoid.

Paranoid schizophrenia is a diagnosed disorder. I meant paranoia as a personality trait. Do you see similarities between the two? For example, do ppl with the trait also seek validation, and in the same ways? Do you think some types (or cognitive functions) are more disposed to paranoia as a trait? Do you think ppl with the trait are more disposed to have the disorder? And do different types seek validation of their paranoia in different ways?
 

doppelganger

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Overall, I don't consider myself a paranoid person. I do have problems with uncertainty, but that's it.

What kinds of "problems with uncertainty"? As an ENFJ you have a good understanding of people. What are your observations of paranoia in others?
 

Annihilation

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Pi doms are often paranoid because they do very little information gathering (Ne/Se), and make grand conclusions from very little information. So any negative ideas are seldom defeated unless a strong Pe user criticises the idea.

Je doms don't have half this problem, because they have more of a balance between Pi and Pe.
 

doppelganger

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Pi doms are often paranoid because they do very little information gathering (Ne/Se), and make grand conclusions from very little information. So any negative ideas are seldom defeated unless a strong Pe user criticises the idea.

Je doms don't have half this problem, because they have more of a balance between Pi and Pe.

Pi-doms have Je aux functions. Why don't these extroverted fcns act more as a reality check for their Pi? Or is the paranoia a sign of an unhealthy imbalance between their dom and aux fcns?

And Pe is farther down Je-doms' cognitive stacks than Pi-doms', so isn't it the dom Je fncs that provide an extroverted focus to Je-doms that make them less prone to paranoid traits?
 

Annihilation

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Pi-doms have Je aux functions. Why don't these extroverted fcns act more as a reality check for their Pi? Or is the paranoia a sign of an unhealthy imbalance between their dom and aux fcns?
Countering paranoia is going to take evidence against the paranoid delusions. Ji doms will see the evidence due to strong Pe, and likely miss its significance it due to weak Je. Pi doms won't see the evidence, but also wouldn't dismiss it due to strong Je.

I don't like being a Pi dom, because we make a lot of assumptions. The weaknesses of being a Pi dom were made explicitly clear when spending a lot of time with an ISFJ and then reflecting. ISFJs and INTJs read into absolutely everything and can be utterly wrong about it all.
 

Mole

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Paranoid schizophrenia is a diagnosed disorder. I meant paranoia as a personality trait. Do you see similarities between the two? For example, do ppl with the trait also seek validation, and in the same ways? Do you think some types (or cognitive functions) are more disposed to paranoia as a trait? Do you think ppl with the trait are more disposed to have the disorder? And do different types seek validation of their paranoia in different ways?

I don't see paranoia as a personality trait, rather I see paranoia as a mental illness.

Of course narcissists like to flatter themselves by inflating normal suspicion into paranoia.
 

Cellmold

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I am paranoid, but this is to do with general insecurities and anxieties and is just basically unhealthy for me and anyone around me.

If I were to place it to a function, then Pi would be far more forthcoming alongside inferior triggers and blindspots when it comes to paranoia.
 

Mole

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I am paranoid, but this is to do with general insecurities and anxieties and is just basically unhealthy for me and anyone around me.

If I were to place it to a function, then Pi would be far more forthcoming alongside inferior triggers and blindspots when it comes to paranoia.

If you were actually paranoid, you would not be able to say you are paranoid.

In fact your 'paranoia' is a fancy.

You fancy you are paranoid, and you fancy it so much, you tell us all about it.
 

Cellmold

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If you were actually paranoid, you would not be able to say you are paranoid.

In fact your 'paranoia' is a fancy.

You fancy you are paranoid, and you fancy it so much, you tell us all about it.

So the quality of paranoia is not knowing you are. So perhaps I am paranoid about being paranoid. It's not a fancy, more an observation.

Bravo!

Does this go for other issues or just paranoia?
 

Mole

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So the quality of paranoia is not knowing you are. So perhaps I am paranoid about being paranoid. It's not a fancy, more an observation.

Bravo!

Does this go for other issues or just paranoia?

The person suffering from paranoia has a belief not shared by those around them. And any attempt to change the paranoid belief is experienced by the paranoid as proof that their belief is true.

So the last thing a person suffering from paranoia will say is, "I am paranoid".

The paranoid person will deny they are paranoid, and see any attempt to show they are paranoid as proof their paranoid beliefs are true.

So paranoia is a self validating trance loop.
 

Cellmold

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The person suffering from paranoia has a belief not shared by those around them. And any attempt to change the paranoid belief is experienced by the paranoid as proof that their belief is true.

So the last thing a person suffering from paranoia will say is, "I am paranoid".

The paranoid person will deny they are paranoid, and see any attempt to show they are paranoid as proof their paranoid beliefs are true.

So paranoia is a self validating trance loop.

Huh now isn't that an interesting thought, I'm getting an irony erection from you today Victor.

Any attempt to change the beliefs results in the paranoid person more convinced of their truth....

I....hmmm I'm looking at you and there is a frazzle of a thought, but I just can't connect the dots. :whistling:
 

Haven

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Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.
 

ceecee

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My wife is an ENFJ, and she does like to check and double check things. She also has issues with stuff that just don't bother me; for example, it really irks her if people catch a glimpse of her leaving or entering the house / car, etc. Call her paranoid, however, and she'll flip a shit.

Even neighbors/people she knows? If my ENFJ had issues with this, he'd be flipping out daily so I'm happy he just waves or chit chats or whatever.
 

prplchknz

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I don't think paranoia is a Je trait cuz I spent most of my life being paranoid. And I don't think I'm a J, maybe I am. but I don't think it's type related
 
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