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[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Functions That Bend Inward (Just Explaining Some Discrepancies)

Mal12345

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No matter how much people-watching I do, people still remain a mystery to me in some ways. But at least I've moved beyond the old impression I used to have that people's thinking and behavior are unique instead of moving in patterns that appear similar from person to person.

Knowing that the auxiliary of a type can bend inward is just a little more information to add to the mystery.
 

reckful

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Knowing that the auxiliary of a type can bend inward is just a little more information to add to the mystery.

Thank you for clearing that up!

The more information we can add to the mystery, the more informational the mystery becomes.
 

Mal12345

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Thank you for clearing that up!

The more information we can add to the mystery, the more informational the mystery becomes.

I don't understand. I thought the OP was informational, as well as explanatory. Or are you saying it was?

All I'm saying is that, for example, your auxiliary Te bends inward, in towards the psyche and away from the external, to become more like Ti, bringing structure to the internal realm of ideas and intuitions.
 

reckful

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All I'm saying is that, for example, your auxiliary Te bends inward, in towards the psyche and away from the external, to become more like Ti, bringing structure to the internal realm of ideas and intuitions.

And are you saying that an extravert's auxiliary correspondingly "bends outward" — e.g., that an ENTP's auxiliary Ti would bend out towards the external and away from the psyche, to become more like Te, bringing structure to the external realm?
 

Mal12345

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And are you saying that an extravert's auxiliary correspondingly "bends outward" — e.g., that an ENTP's auxiliary Ti would bend out towards the external and away from the psyche, to become more like Te, bringing structure to the external realm?

The auxiliary function bends in the direction of the dominant function.
 

Opal

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How does a bending auxiliary function differ from its opposite orientation?

Another member, perhaps Alea, mentioned that functions develop as wholes, so it would make sense that functions in the auxiliary role would flip more than others.
 

reckful

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The auxiliary function bends in the direction of the dominant function.

And the reason the thread title is "Functions that bend inward" rather than "Functions that bend" is...?
 

Seymour

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If you look at the evidence from a empirical/non-type-dynamic perspective, I think it's more easily explained: the "functions" are really describing the additive factors of three preferences (so Ne = E + N + P). So, when one describes the function in its "auxiliary" form, there's a mild mismatch. So, for example, an INTP prefers I + N +P, rather than the E + N + P that comprises "Ne". (Though to be fair, I think the function description are a little less weighted to the E/I preference than to the other two grouped preferences, perhaps so the descriptions can cover the "auxiliary" form).

Therefore, both INPs and ENPs will share the additive qualities of N + P, but there will be differences because the E/I preference is different. This means that there should be a pure "N+P" description what will cover much of what "Ne" is, and apply equally well to INPs and ENPs.

One can see this when one hears things like "INTPs seem almost to direct their extraverted intuition inward, being largely focused on perceiving internal, abstract possibilities" and the like.

Of course, all this implies that is the possibility for descriptions of all the preference dyads and triads. For example, the "Te" of introverts is no doubt different than that of extraverts, because of the effects of the introversion preference itself. So, if we teased out T+J, we could then compare it to I+T+J and E+T+J, and so glean more precise descriptions and better insight. Such a description of T+J would apply particularly well to ambiverts (with middling E/I preference) that have a clear T and J preference.
 

Mal12345

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And the reason the thread title is "Functions that bend inward" rather than "Functions that bend" is...?

Mistake. It should have read "inward/outward."

You'll find that I make lots of funny little mistakes. Most of them I am able to correct.
 

Mal12345

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How does a bending auxiliary function differ from its opposite orientation?

Another member, perhaps Alea, mentioned that functions develop as wholes, so it would make sense that functions in the auxiliary role would flip more than others.

The bending auxiliary function has less work to do for the dominant function, and is a more capable or competent function than it is in its opposite orientation. It has less work to do, but it functions more efficiently or even naturally. This is because, as a function that works implicitly, more in the background of cognition and less in the personality, the ego is not so invested in its products.

The Ne-aux for the INTP can produce a blizzard of observations, too many for Ti to handle. Thus Ti becomes uninterested in those observations - unless it is somehow able to systematize all these observations by sorting out the good from the bad (or silly). Ne-aux, when it bends inward, produces Ni observations, but not nearly as many as Ne, and so Ti is able to systematize them more effectively.
 

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All I'm saying is that, for example, your auxiliary Te bends inward, in towards the psyche and away from the external, to become more like Ti, bringing structure to the internal realm of ideas and intuitions.

With INTJs thinking goes outwards, intuition on the other hand "bends" the whole of process inwards. This "bending inwards" thing i think you were looking for the word abstraction, thats a process of introversion, Te does not do that, Ni on the other hand can abstract using information derived from Te.
 

Mal12345

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With INTJs thinking goes outwards, intuition on the other hand "bends" the whole of process inwards. This "bending inwards" thing i think you were looking for the word abstraction, thats a process of introversion, Te does not do that, Ni on the other hand can abstract using information derived from Te.

Te is not a source of information, but of judgments.
 

INTP

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Te is not a source of information, but of judgments.

it creates information by evaluating what something is, so yes it is a source of information
 

Mal12345

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it creates information by evaluating what something is, so yes it is a source of information

I knew you were going to say that.
 

Mal12345

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it creates information by evaluating what something is, so yes it is a source of information

Although what you say seems to be an obvious, even trivial, counter-argument, here's why it's wrong.

The judgment of Te is not an object for Intuition and Sensing because these last do not perceive in terms of words and concepts. The judgment of Te is an object for itself. While it's true that Intuition is conceptual, it prefers its concepts to be in the mode of perception, for example:

 

INTP

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Although what you say seems to be an obvious, even trivial, counter-argument, here's why it's wrong.

The judgment of Te is not an object for Intuition and Sensing because these last do not perceive in terms of words and concepts. The judgment of Te is an object for itself. While it's true that Intuition is conceptual, it prefers its concepts to be in the mode of perception, for example:


You have messed up your views by reading too much shit from shitty sources and ignoring good sources.

Okay so if you say that functions are all separated and mix with other functions, maybe you can explain some of these quotes from jung:


That condition in which the psychological functions are fused or merged one into the other (v. Differentiation) is archaic — the fusion, for instance, of thinking with feeling, feeling with sensation, or feeling with intuition.

concretism represents a mixing-up of thought and feeling with sensation. It is a state of concretism when the object of thinking and feeling is at the same time also an object of sensation.

Thinking in general is fed from two sources, firstly from subjective and in the last resort unconscious roots, and secondly from objective data transmitted through sense perceptions.

Extraverted thinking is conditioned in a larger measure by these latter factors than by the former.

And yes, im truly interested what sort of bullshit rationalization you can come up with :----DDD
 

Mal12345

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You have messed up your views by reading too much shit from shitty sources and ignoring good sources.

Okay so if you say that functions are all separated and mix with other functions, maybe you can explain some of these quotes from jung:







And yes, im truly interested what sort of bullshit rationalization you can come up with :----DDD


I don't have to explain the quotes from Jung. Why should I have to do your homework for you? :----DDD
 

INTP

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I don't have to explain the quotes from Jung. Why should I have to do your homework for you? :----DDD

I think you meant that you cant explain the quotes.

Then explain this, dario nardis research shows that Ne involves all brain regions lighting up like a christmas tree and Ni involves all brain regions to go into zen type of mode where they are all used equally. These regions take the regions used by thinking in the process of intuition. You claim that intuition cannot use information created by thinking into account, but how do you explain nardis observation?
 

Mal12345

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I think you meant that you cant explain the quotes.

You explain the quotes. I don't have to do your work for you.

Then explain this, dario nardis research shows that Ne involves all brain regions lighting up like a christmas tree and Ni involves all brain regions to go into zen type of mode where they are all used equally. These regions take the regions used by thinking in the process of intuition. You claim that intuition cannot use information created by thinking into account, but how do you explain nardis observation?

Does the brain reduce to functions?
 

Mal12345

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...Anyway, it's easy in reality to see the activity of the function that bends inward or outward. ISTJ and INTJ types with their Te-aux often come across as being highly intellectual in the Ti sense of having subjective, often impractical intellectual interests. My past interest in Kantian philosophy is a case in point. But this intellectualism serves the practical - concrete or conceptual - interests of the Si- or Ni-Dominant (whereas for the Ti-dom it serves itself). So for them, the normally impractical and self-centered interests of the Ti function serve the practical interests of the person. Ti ideas are useful, and are interesting only to the extent that they are useful and not merely limited to the theoretical realm.

Ti ideas are useful when they provide clear ideas or systems of thought that bring the ISTJ and INTJ types closer to their practical, pragmatic goals. Ti ideas are often of a radical nature, but the great perceptiveness of the Si- and Ni-dominant is able to sort out that which is useful from that which is bullshit, although Ti forces them to take all ideas seriously.

Every ISTJ and INTJ I have known has had a similar intellectual bent to their personalities. They are not intellectual types per se, but when they use their intellectual Ti capacities they are nearly unstoppable.

*I should define what I mean by 'intellectual' here: it means taking an interest in the abstract and systematic. An ISTP likes maps, graphs, diagrams, and other abstract models of concrete reality. So when I talk about Ti-dom I'm not necessarily talking about my own INTP type.
 
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