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Thread: Doubting N

  1. #21
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    iNtution *is* perceiving something.
    Patterns and insinuations from the outside.
    But patterns and insinuations on the inside too.
    Aha, I think we're getting somewhere. I see patterns to be inside the mind, and outside it is a big chaos that is defined by the mind. So, it is important to think that world as it is has patterns that are definite and not debatable? I mean, we call square a square, but all squares are slightly different and are categorized only for convenience.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    When people use the word intuition in an MBTI context, they're talking about recognition of higher level patterns than merely "this shape is different than that." If you want to call it a low level intuitive process, I don't think anyone's going to object.
    Well, it must start somewhere small. Except that feeling and sensing seem to start with full volume on babies.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Ilah's Avatar
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    I agree that intuition is a hard thing to understand and explain. We grow up learning about our senses and our feelings and thinking. The names and basic ideas are familiar to us. We have the language and terms to talk about this things.

    We are taught the different ways we can sense things and what they are called. We are taught the specifics of of individual senses, red v. blue, sweet v. sour, hot v. cold, quiet v. loud. Sensing becomes familiar and comfortable and understandable.

    Intuition, is not really talked about with children or discussed in classes. When we intuit, we don't even know we are intuiting because it has not been given a name. We haven't been given words to describe it like we have with our senses or feelings so we don't know what to call it. And people rarely talk about it. People will say "what do you think?" "how do you feel?" but not "what do you intuit?"

    I have learned to identify it almost by process of elimination. If I have strong feelings or ideas about something and it isn't supported by logic and cannot be explained by emotion, it is probably intuition. If I feel very strongly about something but I can't give any explaination why, that is probably intuition. If I don't know where an idea or thought came from, it is probably intuition.

    Ilah

  3. #23
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    If S is basing things on things which are apparent now then N is basing things upon how it fits into all you have learned before as one giant package.

    As all things are relative to something else and parallels are seen all over the place then isn't intuition the king of thought processes?



    Well at least if we could get the details down it would be....

    Perhaps you need to lose the association with "intuition" as in the more well known form where people act like psychics and get everything wrong because they ignored the context and used the force their intuition.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #24
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Well, it must start somewhere small. Except that feeling and sensing seem to start with full volume on babies.
    Feeling in babies? I think you're mixing nomenclatures.

  5. #25
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Intuition is very different from of rational or logical reasoning. Rational and logical reasoning is done conciously step by step and intuition is brain functioning without you noticing it. It's a process that you are unaware of when it happens. You are only aware of the product (= a thought, a gut feeling etc.) of that process. so, intuition is subconscious. I think the products of intuition can be trusted as much as logical or rational thinkin because there are pitfalls in rational and logical thinking too.

    My definition of intuition might not fit with the MBTI one.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilah View Post
    And people rarely talk about it. People will say "what do you think?" "how do you feel?" but not "what do you intuit?"
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Perhaps you need to lose the association with "intuition" as in the more well known form where people act like psychics and get everything wrong because they ignored the context and used the force their intuition.
    Very much trying not to associate them. Its hard not to (damn intuition)

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Feeling in babies? I think you're mixing nomenclatures.
    WTF, it isn't feeling based? Don't confuse me more!!! All they do is value judgments... "I feel hungry, I cry" "I feel tired, I sleep"

  7. #27
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Michael Scott. Q.E.D:
    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    N is pattern recognition

    Realizing and interpreting interrelationships between otherwise unrelated elements

    Accuracy is incidental. Configuring accuracy is a facet of intelligence. This is typically the disconnect most associate between positive intelligence and iNtuition. In truth, they are only causally linked.

    iNtuition is fundamentally opaque. Mechanical tuning sharpens clarity.
    we fukin won boys

  8. #28
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    WTF, it isn't feeling based? Don't confuse me more!!! All they do is value judgments... "I feel hungry, I cry" "I feel tired, I sleep"
    Yeah, I don't really consider that decision-making but just following instinct. A baby doesn't decide to cry or decide to eat. It just does. When a person is asked to assess a situation and make some type of determination, they need to evaluate their feelings (F) or the parameters assigned to solving the task (T).

  9. #29
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    All they do is value judgments... "I feel hungry, I cry" "I feel tired, I sleep"
    Those are value judgments?

  10. #30
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    If S is basing things on things which are apparent now then N is basing things upon how it fits into all you have learned before as one giant package.
    No, that's what Ti does. Intuition discovers new things which are unseen, basing its postulations on what is seen. Ti then configures those theories according to what is known. Often the hypotheses are built on several of Thinking's forumulas, but even still, intuition bothers not with what already is except as a launch pad.

    As all things are relative to something else and parallels are seen all over the place then isn't intuition the king of thought processes?
    The relations are often only percieved -- not actually there. Intuition isn't billed as an expert on reality, nor even is Sensing per se. Reality and perception are not inherently linked.

    My point is, the connections are often imaginary.


    Well at least if we could get the details down it would be....
    Night said it best. Eventually Thinking steps in to delete those ideas whose times have passed.

    NTs are typically portrayed as more intelligent only because of the famous ones: Feynman, Einstein, Socrates.... I know plenty of dumbass NTs. Again like Night said; "configuring accuracy is a facet of intelligence." or however he said it.

    Intuition does not involve pattern analysis. It's simply the awareness that a pattern or connection is present. The intuitor who doesn't analyze the patterns he knows of may often be able to predict the next event, without knowing why he knew.
    we fukin won boys

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