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  1. #31
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    Yeah, but it's done so smoothly that we love-hate you while it's happening, you suave bastards you!

    And hai, I didn't realise you were you until I saw your video!
    HAI *waves furiously*

    Hahahaha. I have hinted to you multiple times since I got here that I am here, but it sailed right over your head it seems. A while back I said something a kin to "one who hides amongst the shadows" and thought it was quite explicit. . I took about a 3 year break from the community at large when I started grad school.

    Heh, yup, it's how we roll. So long as we use our powers for good it all works out in the end (unless it's one of those people that just hate it right away).
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
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    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  2. #32
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    I don't think manipulation skills are related to any MBTI type.
    I agree, skill is unrelated to MBTI. That said, the tendancy to do so I would say is. Just because one does it doesn't mean they'll be good at it.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  3. #33
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iHeartCats View Post
    I somewhat disagree. ENTPs are the real masterminds, except that they don't even try to be it, cause they are just too busy with fun and real life to make mastermind plans. Most INTJs, on the other hand, seem to have plenty of time for manipulation plans, which makes them prone to contemplating on world domination, but they never seem to execute their plans into reality.
    The J/TJ desire for closure leads most INTJs to be fairly successful in executing plans, whether through manipulation or more direct means. In fact, we tend to be good partners or coworkers for NTPs, who tend to have plenty of creative and ingenious ideas, but lack the consistency and follow-through to see them implemented.

    Not unrelatedly, I suspect that ENTP manipulation is more reflexive and spontaneous, while INTJ manipulation is more deliberate and goal-oriented.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  4. #34
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    Eh, with ENTP's people usually know they are being manipulated and go along for the ride.
    Agreed, and to me, that's some slick ass, Doc Holliday shit. To manipulate someone and have them convinced it's ok, or even a great idea. Problem is, ENTPs aren't that cold in general. So I don't think they go too deep into the unethical. They'll definitely stick a big toe in though. And if someone really pisses one off, then all bets are off.

    Quote Originally Posted by iHeartCats View Post
    ENTPs are the real masterminds, except that they don't even try to be it, cause they are just too busy with fun and real life to make mastermind plans. Most INTJs, on the other hand, seem to have plenty of time for manipulation plans, which makes them prone to contemplating on world domination, but they never seem to execute their plans into reality.

    ENTJs seem to have the right mix of intention to manipulate, executive abilities and sufficient time for execution of their plans. They would be the most successful at it then, regarding the NT population.
    Agree with most.

    Sure an ENTP could manipulate the shit out of you, but it's not really that fun. Haha.

    I don't think INTJs have the social charm/charisma to pull it off.

    ENTJs, on the other hand, have, as you said, all the skillz.



    As a side note, I think it's interesting to say that certain types are immune to manipulation if they're developed. ENTPs being one. I have a lot of respect for ENTJs ability to charm and follow through, but their Jedi Mind tricks don't work on me. muuhahahaha. And believe me, online and IRL, they've tried. It's cute.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.
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  5. #35
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    I don't think manipulation skills are related to any MBTI type.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I agree, skill is unrelated to MBTI. That said, the tendancy to do so I would say is. Just because one does it doesn't mean they'll be good at it.
    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    I don't understand this line of thinking. TypoC is a bit of a mixed bag, but other forums that are type specific or have types grouped together on some subthread, you REALLY get a good idea of what they're like. Of course MBTI isn't an exact science, but I've been FASCINATED by how similar the people of a certain type are.

    Sure, everyone's a unique snowflake, but I cannot ignore the consistencies of traits I've seen displayed by type. By actual people.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Opal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    I don't think INTJs have the social charm/charisma to pull it off.

    ENTJs, on the other hand, have, as you said, all the skillz.
    I know a fairly charismatic INTJ in person. His is a dry humor, but he successfully sways group opinions and plants plans of action that others enact.

  7. #37
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    From what I have noticed there are two types of manipulation - emotional and logical.

    If we drag MBTI into this Fe would be emotional manipulation and Te would be logical manipulation.

    Fe manipulation could be in the form of creating emotional enthusiasm - which you notice quite a lot in ENFJs - and on a negative method could be done with passive aggression and guilt tripping.

    Te manipulation - the right words don't cross my mind yet - is usually in the form putting weight behind/backing up factual data/bargaining/convincing with Te and on a negative method could be done with bullying/fear etc.

    Therefore I would say ENTJs are the best at it because they not only are Te doms - no other type in the NT category are Je doms - and being extroverts have the extroverted people skills/tolerance to their advantage.

    INTJs would come since Je is their secondary function. However, they can give ENTJs a close run or sometimes even be better than them because they are Ni doms. Ni being naturally big picture - though on most occasions to their 'disadvantage' - but being driven by internal ideas/inspirations - as opposed to Ne which is driven by external - have the ability to carefully run a plan through without being forced into/tempted to changing their plans due to external changing circumstances or approval. ENTJs being extroverts might have a need to check themselves with others.

    ENTPs manipulate with Ne+Fe. Fe alone isn't enough for them to support them in this arena since it's their tertiary and they are not really others concerned to force it out alone/it would feel unnatural to them - not that for manipulation purposes being others concerned is necessary. Their manipulation comes in forms of Ne (external inspiration or I would like to call it induced enthusiasm) - seeing things differently as opposed to Se which is seeing things as it is - and using Fe to create enthusiasm/to connect with people to sell their ideas/Ne. The downside of ENTP manipulation methods are they need to always tests their ideas with people, to bounce off and see, unlike that of Te manipulators.

    To summarize what I said -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    With INTJs, you don't notice until after. With ENTPs, you notice and let yourself get played anyway.
    This.

    Anyway, like I said at the beginning these are what I have noticed.
    .

  8. #38
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iHeartCats View Post
    I somewhat disagree. ENTPs are the real masterminds, except that they don't even try to be it, cause they are just too busy with fun and real life to make mastermind plans. Most INTJs, on the other hand, seem to have plenty of time for manipulation plans, which makes them prone to contemplating on world domination, but they never seem to execute their plans into reality.

    ENTJs seem to have the right mix of intention to manipulate, executive abilities and sufficient time for execution of their plans. They would be the most successful at it then, regarding the NT population.
    All INTJ I know are friends, or in my own family (not brother, father or mum).
    I'd say INTJ can be terrible at work or even within an unhealthy intimate relationship.
    I don't know many ENTPThe few I have met in the past were more fun or assholes without being manipulative.
    The ENTJ at work can be manipulative or bullies. In interpersonal relationship I can't say as I normally did not spend my free time with them.

    My own experience would make me be more careful with :

    ESFJ
    ESTJ

    ESFJ can have some skills to manipulate your own feelings if you are not confident enough.
    The same for ESTJ but those are much too cold and I can feel there is something wrong straight away.


    ENFP... They can be quite charming ! I used to know two manipulative boys (sx) in the seduction area.
    Two narcissist persons, very nice...very nice indeed... until you start to know them better...

    But here again, if you know where you wanna go, you'll feel something strange :
    the 2 I have met could become boastful and childish if you refused to follow them !


    I guess NF can be as terrific as SFX if unhealthy and egoistic.
    Anyway, whatever the type, manipulation has something to do with a lack of strong humanist values, a lack of feelings, and if you are not blind,
    you must see that the relationship is only goal oriented.

    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM
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  9. #39
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    I don't understand this line of thinking. TypoC is a bit of a mixed bag, but other forums that are type specific or have types grouped together on some subthread, you REALLY get a good idea of what they're like. Of course MBTI isn't an exact science, but I've been FASCINATED by how similar the people of a certain type are.

    Sure, everyone's a unique snowflake, but I cannot ignore the consistencies of traits I've seen displayed by type. By actual people.
    Yes, and I was just giving my opinion about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    From what I have noticed there are two types of manipulation - emotional and logical.

    If we drag MBTI into this Fe would be emotional manipulation and Te would be logical manipulation.
    I can agree with this. Althought it is still not necessarily strictly related to type with primary Fe or Te. People with not primary Te and/or Fe can still use these functions to manipulate.

    I think Te manipulation works better with T-people and Fe manipulation works better with F-people. Really good manipulator can change manipulation tactics from emotions to logical to factual to whatever serves their purposes.

  10. #40
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    If you've seen things, then why not post examples of what you've seen?

    For example: Mr. INTJ wants me to stick around his house because he needs help with a refrigerator that's being delivered shortly. BUT, he doesn't tell me he needs help with it, he only mentions the fridge delivery. So he invites me inside his home and gives me some apple beer (explaining how awesome it is), then we go outside and shoot some paint ball (explaining how awesome it is). Eventually the fridge arrives and I end up helping him install it. He thanked me for helping him, and that was it. Apparently, at that point I was dismissed.

    After all the times I've been to his house, that was the only time he's treated me like a friend and not just in a friendly fashion.

    But I understand that, in the grand scheme of things, all his friendly behavior is just manipulation - it's how he gets along with people and gets them to do what he wants them to do. And in fact he's told me in confidence that he hates people. And I've seen his real self - it is colder than the inside of that refrigerator he had delivered, emotionless as a Vulcan.
    But you keep going there, even though you dislike the way you're being treated. You voice no objection about that or about installing the fridge. If he's told you he hates people (and I've said this myself more than once), what is it you're trying to accomplish with him?
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

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