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Your personality's "highest value"?

sleepless

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Jul 30, 2008
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81
MBTI Type
INFJ
I don't know if any of you have read this essay? INFJ Archetypes
I don't think I understand it all, but one thing I found interesting is how she (or he, John Beebe, in the first place) puts the 1st and 4th function (the INFJ is just an example) on the same "axis", thus showing that the 4th so-called "inferior" function works "in tandem" with the 1st, that they actually depend on each other, like two sides of a coin.

(see the link for picture)

In this model, the vertical axis operates as the "spine" of the personality. Now here is a very important concept to grasp: while the dominant function is at the top of the axis, notice how the "inferior" function supports it. The inferior function suddenly snaps into view as the "anchor" of the personality, and this function cradles many of the personality's aspirations. Rather than operating as a repository of shame and inadequacy (as it is usually portrayed), it is re-cast as a source of pride and inspiration. The so-called "inferior" function now becomes a storehouse of purpose and represents the personality's highest value. (It may take you some time to take that notion in, especially if you've learned to "demonize" your inferior function.)

The 4th function "represents the personality's highest value?" What do you say about that? I'm not sure I understand completely but I come to think of the all the INJ people who become buddhists or the like, who put this very high emphasis on physical awareness, living here and now - INJs' 4th function, Extraverted Sensing. Is this what she means? (I still don't get it...)

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this... especially, if you're by any chance not INFJ/INTJ, what then? What does it mean that, for example, Te is the INFP's "highest value"?
 

Homini Lupus

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Aug 3, 2008
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INTJ
Unluckily, I'm INTJ. But I'm one of those who stopped demonising its Se and started appreciating it. In the last few years I understood that my body has the same dignity of my mind, even if somewhat less developed, and started accepting more the inputs and the needs of it, and most important than all I started exercising much more regularly and stopped denying to others the fact that I have phisical needs. I'm still more at ease alone with my mind, but I developped a better balance with my body. Still, I see it as a tool and not my highest value.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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BELF
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sx/sp
The 4th function "represents the personality's highest value?" What do you say about that? I'm not sure I understand completely but I come to think of the all the INJ people who become buddhists or the like, who put this very high emphasis on physical awareness, living here and now - INJs' 4th function, Extraverted Sensing. Is this what she means? (I still don't get it...)

Hmmm... It would be worth going through all the primary possibilities and tie them to the inferior. The Ni/Se approach makes sense to me -- I do see the pattern where the "mystical" personality, since there is no inherent way to look at things except by choice, thus can merely "exist" within Se and accept reality for what it is.

With Ti/Fe, well, I never really accepted Fe until my Ti realized views a civil social structure as not only legitimate but useful. It makes sense to regulate how people approach each other in order to remain efficient in communication, so that you can be freed up to think.

But it also ties into other logical ideas: Since Ti tells me people have equal value, all things considered, then I need to consider emotional and relational needs legitimate rather than as intrusive since there are those people who benefit from having them. Fe also is less about emoting raw emotion and more about expressing intention and commitment -- it's a language that Ti can use to express itself in a way that does not demand raw emoting.
 

redacted

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this makes sense. some of your perceiving and some of your judging has to be following the external standard instead of internal, or vice versa. more self-actualized people learn to augment their dominant with their inferior.

i think the same is true of the middle two functions. your auxiliary will only be fully functional when you can use it in tandem with your tertiary. (plus, the auxiliary alone usually has no chance of keeping up with the dominant/inferior axis, and even if it could, it would only be pointed one way, so wouldn't be too helpful.)

my INTJ friend is extremely in tune with Se -- she runs/hikes everyday and is very conscious of what foods she eats, etc. she knows how to savor sensation as it comes. and she's much more at peace than most of the INJs i hang around (at least 7).
 

sleepless

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Jul 30, 2008
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INFJ
Jennifer said:
Hmmm... It would be worth going through all the primary possibilities and tie them to the inferior. The Ni/Se approach makes sense to me -- I do see the pattern where the "mystical" personality, since there is no inherent way to look at things except by choice, thus can merely "exist" within Se and accept reality for what it is.
Yes, interesting... they obviously complement each other in a way as do Ti/Fe, and also Si/Ne (memory, experiences, detail/future possibilities, big picture) and supposedly Fi/Te...


Here's another piece of the essay:

Anima/Animus: extraverted Sensing for the INFJ
What does this mean? Paradigm shift alert! It's important to recognize that Beebe radically departs from traditional Type theory in his representation of the inferior function. This function gets lived as an individual's purpose in life; their inspiration, ideal, or "cause" that represents a person's highest value. When operating in this position, the individual is inspired as if by a mythological muse. In an INFJ's case, the normal goal of introverted iNtuition is to sense gestalts. On the same axis, extraverted Sensing will prompt INFJs to express their iNtuition (or their sense of gestalts) in some kind of concrete fashion in the real world; to make some idea "real."

"Sense gestalts", anyone?
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
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Intelligence, integrity.. absolutely.

If they'd have to be condense to one, then make up whatever phrase needed to capture the two :D
 

Ilah

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Jul 13, 2008
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I am INTJ. I can see that in art Ni and Se really come together. My art, which uses Se, allows me to express my Ni. Also Ni lets me see the big picture of how things fit together and Se lets me see the little details, so together I get a clear picture of things.

It is hard to explain Ni with Te, because Ni isn't logical. It is hard to explain Ni with Fi, because it is hard to explain the difference between what you feel intuitively and what you feel emotionally. Also hard for me to explain Ni with Fi because they are both introverted functions and introverted functions are more difficult to share with other people than extroverted functions.

I think Se also brings together all of my top 4 functions through my art. My art lets me express my Ni and Fi and it also uses my Te for technical information about drawing, use of materials, etc.

Yes, I think I "sense gestalts." These are the brief flashes where it seems like everything fits together, like I can see the threads in the tapestry of life and how they are all connected.

Ilah
 

sleepless

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I am INTJ. I can see that in art Ni and Se really come together. My art, which uses Se, allows me to express my Ni. Also Ni lets me see the big picture of how things fit together and Se lets me see the little details, so together I get a clear picture of things.

Ok, this is a good example, thanks. I have a friend who I never knew how to categorize, it's like he's NT but still put a great emphasis on art, sex, beauty, and I thought he must have Se as his 2nd function or something. I can see now that he's INTJ.
 

01011010

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Unluckily, I'm INTJ. But I'm one of those who stopped demonising its Se and started appreciating it. In the last few years I understood that my body has the same dignity of my mind, even if somewhat less developed, and started accepting more the inputs and the needs of it, and most important than all I started exercising much more regularly and stopped denying to others the fact that I have phisical needs. I'm still more at ease alone with my mind, but I developped a better balance with my body. Still, I see it as a tool and not my highest value.

Agreed.

The body houses the mind. The healthier the body, the more efficient the mind will work.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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I wish such a thing existed for ENFJs. I need some demystification of the Fe-primary electric bullwhip.
 

Thursday

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I wish such a thing existed for ENFJs. I need some demystification of the Fe-primary electric bullwhip.

of course it does
stop being so passive, this instant !

Myers Briggs Personality Type - Denver, Colorado -- Dominant Introverted Thinking - Ti

To others, Ti types appear even-tempered, objective to the point of being impersonal. They have little time for people they view as having lesser credibility, knowledge or expertise than themselves, and so people around them can find themselves feeling dismissed, disliked, or that they somehow came up on the short end of the stick without really understanding why they feel that way. Even as children, Tis are fiercely independent. Not naturally social or relationally connected, they are prone to forget or ignore standard social rules and traditions. When they do connect with someone, they are interested in the depth and complexity of that person, and you may find yourself feeling a bit like an insect pinned to the tray, objectively studied. They will either find you sufficiently interesting, and want to understand you further, or you will be casually dismissed. Often, they find acquaintance-type relationships simply a waste of their time.
 

Ishida

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I would "Act" out my fantasies (involving magic, swords. and the like) as a kid, now I do martial arts, and I haven't forgotten why I started..
 

Thursday

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i have always had a fantasy of being a spy / detective
and act as such for the human psyche

is that inferior Ti ?
 

Leysing

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Mar 21, 2008
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FiSi
What does it mean that, for example, Te is the INFP's "highest value"?

Te makes us want to be strong and efficient advocates and defenders of our Fi values.

I have always dreamed of being strong and independent and doing something worthy that would affect the surrounding world, like defending the weak and exploited and victimized.

I'm the Big Sister in my family, so I have always been given a lot of responsibility and work to do. I've had to learn to use my Te to do these things responsibly (Si, too) and efficiently. My parents are both SJs, so responsibility and efficiency have always been demanded. ;)

I got severely mobbed at school and I had to learn to defend myself. My Te developed a lot in that situation, too.

(Btw, I decided to show the description of Te to my sister and asked whether I use it or not. She said "Yes, you are like that often when explaining your opinions to others or defending them or yourself" and then waved her hands while shouting "ARRRGH!" :D)
 

sleepless

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Te makes us want to be strong and efficient advocates and defenders of our Fi values.

I have always dreamed of being strong and independent and doing something worthy that would affect the surrounding world, like defending the weak and exploited and victimized.
Yes, this makes sense. I'll "add it to my journal" then. ;)

So, in a way, INFPs express their Fi through their Te, by seeing what is wrong with the world and then acting to change it. I wonder about ISFPs, though? As sensors they aren't as concerned with world change, so their Te must be used somewhat differently.

Some other thoughts:

Si-Ne: using Ne as a kind of precaution to see the future coming and then further be able to protect and preserve that which matters to them. (Si - "the unknown is dangerous")

Ti-Fe: connecting with other people through Fe, to discuss relevant facts/concepts/ideas (Ti-matters), ultimately ending in consensus.

The model doesn't seem to work as good for Extraverted types, I think. It's relatively easy to see how an Introvert needs to project their inner F/T/S/N/whatever onto something in the outer world, going from E to I seems more farfetched.

(Btw, I decided to show the description of Te to my sister and asked whether I use it or not. She said "Yes, you are like that often when explaining your opinions to others or defending them or yourself" and then waved her hands while shouting "ARRRGH!" :D)
^^
 

Delphyne

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Aug 6, 2008
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INFP
Te helps me to see the limits and pitfalls of my dominant function Fi. It causes me to ponder why there are people who just can´t seem to share my point of view. If everyone would prefer to look at the world through Fi glasses it would be a better world. Sure, it´s sensible to consider always the individual person and to base your judgement on the individual situation. Only there´s Te and shows me that fixed and inflexible structures are sometimes necessary. A society can´t deal with making allowances for every individual person.
 

INA

now! in shell form
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my INTJ friend is extremely in tune with Se -- she runs/hikes everyday and is very conscious of what foods she eats, etc. she knows how to savor sensation as it comes. and she's much more at peace than most of the INJs i hang around (at least 7).
I do not think I am INTJ but Se is my 4th function, and like your friend I am quite conscious of the food I eat and like to savor sensory data as well. I find that if I don't I am only half living. Things seem to be mere shell. Unfortunately, I do not always heed Se's kinesthetic aspects. It is an on-again off again thing. The bad part is that I find that ignoring the body and its needs takes a toll on the mind as well, in the form of blocked expression, short attention, extreme apathy, etc. There's a distinct impoverishment that comes with that kind of neglect.
 

Littlelostnf

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With Ti/Fe, well, I never really accepted Fe until my Ti realized views a civil social structure as not only legitimate but useful. It makes sense to regulate how people approach each other in order to remain efficient in communication, so that you can be freed up to think.

But it also ties into other logical ideas: Since Ti tells me people have equal value, all things considered, then I need to consider emotional and relational needs legitimate rather than as intrusive since there are those people who benefit from having them. Fe also is less about emoting raw emotion and more about expressing intention and commitment -- it's a language that Ti can use to express itself in a way that does not demand raw emoting.


What Jennifer said in reverse. Fe/Ti :)
 
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