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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    I have in mind my brother who, as a young SP, took on category 4 rapids in a 18-ft canoe without life vests and without knowing how to swim--the first time he had his canoe. The idea was to get in the water and go. Whereas an N could do the same thing, but the idea would be "what will the other end of these rapids look like/what will the view be like over there?" not just "What's it like to experience these rapids?"
    That is exactly it: The experience IS the goal for the SP, that's "living" -- while for the NT the experience can be gleaned for knowledge to make future projections and understand the world better. The NT utilizes the experience for things other than itself.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    J-Predispositioned to apply judgment (feeling/thinking) primarily to the external world.
    I don't remember anything Jung-ish about those ones... especially J. Where did they come from?

  3. #13
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That is exactly it: The experience IS the goal for the SP, that's "living" -- while for the NT the experience can be gleaned for knowledge to make future projections and understand the world better. The NT utilizes the experience for things other than itself.
    Yup.

    I'm kind of amazed that there are any OLD SPs, to tell you the truth.
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    Yup.

    I'm kind of amazed that there are any OLD SPs, to tell you the truth.
    Totally.

    When I read about Everest climbs, for example, or other people in high-risk sports (risk skiers / climbers caught in avalanches for example)... you would be amazed at the number of SPs and how many have died cutting things too close.

    NTs too, although they tend to plan and envision a lot better... still, in those situations, there's too little control over the environment and they can still get caught.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    Yup.

    I'm kind of amazed that there are any OLD SPs, to tell you the truth. :wry:
    Haha!! I always thought the same thing. Likewise, I am amazed that there are any young SJ's.

    But when I think about it, I think most of the bullies in schools are SJ's gone bad, since an unhealthy SJ would more likely be intolerant of people who are different. They probably would repress feeling inferior by looking superior.

    When I put it into perspective, the SJ is probably more likely to be involved in sports than even the SP.

    I stereotype the school-age temperaments as follows:

    SJ: jocks, preps, teacher's pets, straight A students (Emilio Estevez and Molly Ringwald in The Breakfast Club)

    SP: stoners, troublemakers, goofballs (Judd Nelson in The Breakfast Club)

    NF: artists, emos, peer mediators (Ally Sheedy in The Breakfast Club)

    NT: geeks, Goths, nerds, dorks, "oddballs," loners (Anthony Michael Hall in The Breakfast Club)

    I differentiate emos and Goths because emos seem to display more NF sensitivity and drama that Goths don't seem to.

  6. #16
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    But when I think about it, I think most of the bullies in schools are SJ's gone bad, since an unhealthy SJ would more likely be intolerant of people who are different. They probably would repress feeling inferior by looking superior.

    FWIW, the only real pro-bully behaviour comes from the T (agreeableness) divide, least as far as MBTI goes, as well as those that support bullies. Victim behaviour is determined more by being a P. There is no particular correlation between J or S and being a bully, supporting a bullies or helping victims.

  7. #17
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    PT, That reminds me of the JPT article linking T preference and Machiavellian mindset. Anyone else read that one?

    Yup, off topic.....
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  8. #18
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    I agree that simply saying SPs "yearn to make an impact on others" is confusing and simplistic. I prefer Linda Berens assessment of the core SP needs, "freedom to act" and "ability to make an impact". That could be making an impact on other people in some way (which is what Keirsey focuses on, social impact) but it can also mean making an impact...on ANYTHING in a concrete way. rivercrow nails it: "I do this, and SOMETHING HAPPENS!"

    Here's how Linda Berens describes the "ability to make an impact": Many of us want to have an impact, but the need to see a result from their actions or to elicit an immediate response from others is stronger and more concrete (here and now) than for the rest of us. This need for impact shows in their drive for action.

    When I put it into perspective, the SJ is probably more likely to be involved in sports than even the SP.
    While there are plenty of SJs involved in middle and high school sports, I would bet that a lot of professional and college athletes are SPs, especially in the team sports. After all, they get to play for a living.

  9. #19
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyInWaiting View Post
    While there are plenty of SJs involved in middle and high school sports, I would bet that a lot of professional and college athletes are SPs, especially in the team sports. After all, they get to play for a living.
    Yes, for professional team sports, most of the athletes seem to be SP types, followed then by SJ types who enjoy the team/loyalty/honor aspects, followed then by NT (with the strategic skills), and then probably NF.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #20
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    SP athletes are probably more likely to be the ones who are carried through college just because they're good. On the other hand, they may be less likely to play sports in school because their grades are poor.

    SJ athletes are probably the ones who act more professional.

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