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  1. #11
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    I see.

    Well, I'm looking at Si and Se purely, and then applying them to the ten statements. So as far as that goes, I would treat them both as Dominant by default.
    The problem here is that you are expecting Si and Se to result from the statements when the statements provided are in fact indicative of other functions.

    The cloud statement pointed more toward Super-Id Ne (weak, valued; Tertiary or Inferior) than it did to an Ego S function, even though the presence of Super-Id Ne theoretically confirms the existence of Ego Si.

    Statements 2, 3, 5, 7 are fine for this purpose; I included the 'S blocked with rational function' format to specify whether or not the S element illustrated was + or - in sign.

    4, 6, 8, 9, and 10 were indicative of other elements that might or might not be able to specify what the person's S preference is.

    6 could possibly indicate Se Auxillary, but only under the circumstance that Fi is Dominant. The example is more likely to point toward +Fi. Unless of course example 6 is a expression of gratitude that is common courtesy, in which case the example would line up more with Fe valuers.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The problem here is that you are expecting Si and Se to result from the statements when the statements provided are in fact indicative of other functions.

    The cloud statement pointed more toward Super-Id Ne (weak, valued; Tertiary or Inferior) than it did to an Ego S function, even though the presence of Super-Id Ne theoretically confirms the existence of Ego Si.

    Statements 2, 3, 5, 7 are fine for this purpose; I included the 'S blocked with rational function' format to specify whether or not the S element illustrated was + or - in sign.

    4, 6, 8, 9, and 10 were indicative of other elements that might or might not be able to specify what the person's S preference is.

    6 could possibly indicate Se Auxillary, but only under the circumstance that Fi is Dominant. The example is more likely to point toward +Fi. Unless of course example 6 is a expression of gratitude that is common courtesy, in which case the example would line up more with Fe valuers.
    Well, do your best not to over-analyze.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #13
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Well, do your best not to over-analyze.
    Do your best to provide Sensing related statements that don't indicate other elements.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Do your best to provide Sensing related statements that don't indicate other elements.
    You can sort out the Sensing elements from the rest. I know you can!
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #15
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    You can sort out the Sensing elements from the rest. I know you can!
    Hence me selecting the statements that actually pertained to Sensing elements (2, 3, 5, 7), while showing you the ones that don't speak for a Sensing element, but might or might not be able to indicate a sensing preference (for example, 1 and 10).

  6. #16
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Hence me selecting the statements that actually pertained to Sensing elements (2, 3, 5, 7), while showing you the ones that don't speak for a Sensing element, but might or might not be able to indicate a sensing preference (for example, 1 and 10).
    I'll repost these statements:

    1. I like to imagine shapes of things in clouds.
    Why do you think this might be Sensory?
    2. How should I wear my hair today?
    3. I often find myself battling my inner demons.
    4. People who have beards are hiding something.
    I'm afraid this is entirely concrete, because it doesn't express an abstract concept (intuition), but a concrete one (sensory).
    5. The people next door have no common sense.
    6. You're such an angel!
    Angels are imaginary concretes, not concepts or abstractions (intuitions). If you can imagine it existing (even if just an apparition), then it counts as a concrete, typologically speaking.
    7. I have unusual feelings that I can only express
    through the world around me.
    8. I enjoy looking for the man in the moon.
    The moon isn't a concrete? The man in the moon, although imaginary, isn't an abstract concept but a reworking of elements in sense-perception (concrete).
    9. There is much beauty in ugliness.
    Beauty and ugliness are by their very nature aesthetic, that is, sensory in nature.
    10. I had a feeling something bad was going to happen.
    Don't you sense feelings? I'm not saying they were emotions being felt here. And it is related to no. 7 which you didn't question as sense related.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #17
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    I'll repost these statements:

    4. People who have beards are hiding something.
    I'm afraid this is entirely concrete, because it doesn't express an abstract concept (intuition), but a concrete one (sensory).
    Jung defined intuition as knowing something without necessarily knowing something. In this statement, there is the projection of certainty for something that is not entirely certain, something that is not known for absolute certainty. Ergo, this example is either someone intuitively reasoning that people with beards are hiding something (knowing without knowing), or someone who is using only personal experience as a basis through a 1-dimensional rational function (most likely 1-d Te). I'd be more inclined to say this statement is an example of the latter, but it, under the right circumstances, could reflect intuition (in which case the intuition utilized would have a higher probability of being introverted intuition due to the need to see through reality and uncover hidden meanings and deceptive distortions). For an example to reflect intuition, it does not need to focus on an abstract concept.

    6. You're such an angel!
    Angels are imaginary concretes, not concepts or abstractions (intuitions). If you can imagine it existing (even if just an apparition), then it counts as a concrete, typologically speaking.
    You seem to have assumed that since I said this was Fi-Ne, this must be involving an abstract concept. Introverted Feeling involves noticing static qualities of people that have ethical merit (or lack of merit), so calling someone an angel based on who they are would be introverted feeling. The reason why I have classified this statement as Fi+ (Fi-Ne) specifically, is due to the fact that -Fi types (Fi-Se) are not inclined to give character compliments (except in the presence of those within their quadruable, it would seem) or call someone out for behaving in a good way, as they are more oriented toward criticizing evil, amorality, and injustice than complimenting do-gooders.

    8. I enjoy looking for the man in the moon.
    The moon isn't a concrete? The man in the moon, although imaginary, isn't an abstract concept but a reworking of elements in sense-perception (concrete).
    A person looking for "the man in the moon" would be most likely experiencing the childish naivety of the Super-Id functions. However, this statement is too generalized and too strange for me to ascertain a function that might produce this behavior other than a childish intuitive function (in which case I would suggest Beta Ni, with its inclinations toward mysticism and spiritual views of events). This example proves too strange to do anything with it.

    9. There is much beauty in ugliness.
    Beauty and ugliness are by their very nature aesthetic, that is, sensory in nature.
    Beauty and ugliness can be assigned to both objects in the environment or concepts that are not necessarily present in the environment.

    10. I had a feeling something bad was going to happen.
    Don't you sense feelings? I'm not saying they were emotions being felt here. And it is related to no. 7 which you didn't question as sense related.
    That's because 7's "feelings" are compulsions that are needed to be brought to reality, which is way more suggestive of Se+ than of other elements. The person who expressed statement number 7 would be a person who thinks "I have this feeling deep inside that I need to let out and demonstrate to the world; I must express my deep feelings through actions and willpower", whereas the "feeling" expressed in 10 is much more based in Ni (the intuition of time), where the feeling that was experienced was one of foreshadowing, "something will go wrong, I just know it (knowing without "knowing")". The "feelings" described here are of a different nature: 7's feelings are subjective impressions brought upon creative Fi, 10's feelings are subjective impressions brought upon Super-Id Ni.

    The introverted elements all deal with "feelings", even introverted thinking, but these "feelings" are idiosyncratic of the element.

    Fi - subjective reactions to objects or people, "feelings" about people, interpersonal relations, and values, or deeper, more indescribable emotions that arise out of the unconscious, for example.

    Ti - subjective categorizations of objects (or people), "feelings" about technical information, how much something might weigh, for instance (more Ti-Se), or how logically consistent a system or idea is or isn't with itself and other information/situations (more Ti-Ne)

    Si - subjective impressions gained from objects or people, "feelings" of comfort or discomfort with how things are, "How does this object make you feel?" (or more accurately, "What does this object make you feel?"), how everything around you makes you "feel".

    Ni - subjective impressions about the timeliness or opportunity of things, "feelings" of how long something is taking, or how things will probably happen, or precisely what time you need to act and mobilize to achieve something.

    EDIT: Do note with these descriptions of feelings, the mental (Ego, Super-Ego) introverted functions will always try to express their "feelings" objectively, as if others know exactly what they are talking about, while vital (Super-Id, Id) feelings will be generally expressed more subjectively, as if the feelings are treated as personal opinion.

  8. #18
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Which of the following represent Se and which represent Si?
    1. I like to imagine shapes of things in clouds.
    Si

    2. How should I wear my hair today?
    Se

    3. I often find myself battling my inner demons.
    Si

    4. People who have beards are hiding something.
    si

    5. The people next door have no common sense.
    se

    6. You're such an angel!
    se

    7. I have unusual feelings that I can only express
    through the world around me.
    Si
    8. I enjoy looking for the man in the moon.
    Si

    9. There is much beauty in ugliness.
    Se

    10. I had a feeling something bad was going to happen.
    Si.


    Si..if it exists.... I see as being associated with recognition of sensory patterns. This also, as I understand it, applies to internal senses. Like "gut feelings." The beard statement is a perceived pattern.


    Side note: Why do people have such an issue with multiple choice? Pet peeve of mine whenever someone asks a question with only a few clearly defined answers, and then they put in their own answers. That's not really answering the question, it's dodging it.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  9. #19
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Not enough information.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
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    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  10. #20
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    The only right answers are Si or Se.
    Bullshit.

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