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  1. #41
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amalie Muller View Post
    I don't know... There is a value to hatred. It could give you that little bit extra you need to survive the imminent zombie apocalypse. So practicing hatred now, could be a real payoff later. I've already started hating Jews, Muslims, Christians, gingers, brunettes, salesmen, INFJs, INTJs, ice cream van drivers, ship captains and white-painted fences this week.
    If you hold hands with zombies around a campfire, they'll probably eat you. Sorry for the stereotype but there's a lot of truth to it
    J. Scott Crothers
    aka "Bush Did 9/11"
    Founder, Truthtology, est. 1952
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    Author, the Holy scripture Elevenetics

    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
    - Elevenetics

  2. #42
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Do people hate INFJs? All I ever hear about them is praise. the INFP is the INFJs' despised cousin

  3. #43
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    More reasons why INFJs piss me off:

    They refuse to let you get close to them in a relationship
    @Eilonwy and others - Is that true? How does that manifest? What does it look like?

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  4. #44
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    In my last relationship the opposite was true. I don't know about how it's felt on the other end, but I like the feeling of being close to and open with someone.

    I think though that I had a family that was very close emotionally and that helped. I also had an ENFJ mother, which probably made it easier to share my thoughts and feelings and to feel understood. It's true though that it takes awhile for people to get to know the more vulnerable parts of me, but it's not a conscious thing really at all. Sometimes I don't even know what all's in there until it comes out. It's just that the more comfortable I feel around someone and the more interested they are in knowing, the more of me they'll see. Similarly, the more miscommunication there is, lack of interest or devaluing of what matters to me, the less I show. Again, that is not so much conscious as unconsciously done.

    I feel much better when people know me well, but I don't want to impose myself, and especially the more difficult parts of myself on them until I am pretty sure that both they and I can deal with it alright. That's one of the reasons why you won't hear an INFJ telling you their most candid thoughts until there is a lot of trust built up, especially if those thoughts or feelings are negative and could impact the relationship. With my ENTJ friend, around the end of the second year of us spending all of our time together, I finally told him that some things he was doing seemed really inconsistent to me (other friends had been frustrated about the same and told him, which opened up the discussion after another incident) and also told him that I was frustrated that there wasn't a lot of give and take in the friendship. Everything was on his terms.

    The matter of fact way he handled it, and the openness and interest he expressed in knowing actually made me feel the closest to him that I ever had. 15 years later, we are still in touch. He is married, with a baby, and so I on purpose have not regularly skyped or called because I don't think I'd like that if I were his wife, even though I have no interest in him (but he did in me at one time).

    With my ESTJ, his ability to get me to try new things and his skill as a teacher made willing to take risks doing things that I normally wouldn't in front of someone until I had known them for many years. He had a great way of explaining things without making me feel foolish and he loved sharing new skills or getting me to try food that I normally wouldn't enjoy. He also made me venture into social settings that I normally would avoid and made them an enjoyable experience.

    That made me feel an instant kind of attraction for him from the very start. On the other hand, the way he handled conflict and his need to not hear anything that could upset him emotionally, as well as his need to appear emotionally invulnerable (to the point of actually retelling events to myself and others in such a way that I began to question my own sanity until finding objective evidence that my initial impressions and memories had indeed been correct) threw up more and more barriers between us until there was very little left to talk about. There was too much unresolved conflict and I did feel like I even knew what he valued about me. In fact, the very thing that had attracted me became a sore point, as there was no skill that I had (even ones that he was trying to learn), where he was willing to put himself in a vulnerable position to learn from me, yet expected me to put myself in that position all of the time.

    Most people that I've liked (and therefore wanted to open up to) are people that are extroverted (are very comfortable socially and are good at making me feel comfortable in their social world too), people that are clear in their interest (rather than leaving me wondering and unsure and therefore tentative about opening up), and people who verbalize what it is about me that they like (I can see a role for myself in the relationship and know how to make them happy). Something that I more seldom experience, but which does make me open up is someone asking me questions about myself and also about how I think without debating, but just to gather information and understand me. The process of answering those questions also helps me understand myself and the world around me better, and anyone who can make that happen is someone that I'm going to value and want to be open with. One of the reasons that I enjoy this forum is that it is a catalyst for me to answer questions or state opinions - something which I do less openly and comfortably in the real world and something that many people aren't that interested in there. (I'm not implying I'm unhappy with them, but just that it is rare to have someone really want to know what makes you tick).

  5. #45
    Member olivetti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    @Eilonwy and others - Is that true? How does that manifest? What does it look like?
    For me it is, but I can't speak for everyone. It's a trust thing: Your actions and how you treat others and how you get to know me all comes together. If I don't know you, I can't trust you, and if I can't trust you I can't get close to you. I do eventually get close in a relationship, but it takes a long, long time. But I may be worse than the average INFJ because of my orientation (demisexual). So I can't promise that my situation is equal to another person's situation.

    I'm much better at getting to know people online and talking with them via the internet - it's easier to deepen a relationship that way, without getting overloaded with how I should act/appear to someone else. If that makes sense.

  6. #46
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    too much to say to be comprehensive, but online, much of the proclaimed hate is primarily rhetoric, ideology, projection. in situations with actual infjs, sometimes there are just some basic enneagrammatic sensitivities regarding boundaries, self-esteem, and blame, that can tend to escalate shit fast.

    in real life, frustrations tend to mount regarding moments of moral certainty regarding sense of purpose and a lack of realization of one's own experience. when i'm not paying attention to and owning my own experience, i'm not going to do very well fully respecting that of others and relating to it with a delicate touch.

    balance is great, but idealizing it too much beyond an aesthetic quality that informs us about a deeper connection to life can prevent us from accepting and appreciating things as they are and allowing them to take their own paths.

    eta: most fjs have these issues. i do think efjs tend to get more social reps, so they have an opportunity to figure out some of these things a little faster and a little smoother. a little earlier awakening/attention to presence (Pe) also helps. i notice i'm slow and have tended to rely on others throughout my 20s to supply many types of awareness i simply hadn't experienced or cultivated yet to get me through.

  7. #47
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    I don't hate anyone but I dislike it when smug, preachy people tell me how I should feel. I'm not saying INFJ = smug preachy though.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    @Eilonwy and others - Is that true? How does that manifest? What does it look like?
    I think it depends on a person's definition of close.

    @SilentMusings what do you mean by close? What constitutes closeness in your way of seeing?
    If I knew that then I could attempt a fair and accurate answer.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  9. #49
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, that never occurred to me either - others might feel closeness differently than what I might feel it to be. So I guess that would change the answer depending on what aspect of closeness the other person was referring to...

    What do you see it as, @highlander?

  10. #50
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    @Eilonwy and others - Is that true? How does that manifest? What does it look like?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I think it depends on a person's definition of close.
    I have to go along with needing a definition first.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

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