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Why do others hate INFJs?

Bush

cute lil war dog
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I don't know... There is a value to hatred. It could give you that little bit extra you need to survive the imminent zombie apocalypse. So practicing hatred now, could be a real payoff later. I've already started hating Jews, Muslims, Christians, gingers, brunettes, salesmen, INFJs, INTJs, ice cream van drivers, ship captains and white-painted fences this week.
If you hold hands with zombies around a campfire, they'll probably eat you. Sorry for the stereotype but there's a lot of truth to it
 

lulabelle

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Do people hate INFJs? All I ever hear about them is praise. the INFP is the INFJs' despised cousin
 

highlander

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More reasons why INFJs piss me off:

They refuse to let you get close to them in a relationship
[MENTION=8244]Eilonwy[/MENTION] and others - Is that true? How does that manifest? What does it look like?
 

Fidelia

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In my last relationship the opposite was true. I don't know about how it's felt on the other end, but I like the feeling of being close to and open with someone.

I think though that I had a family that was very close emotionally and that helped. I also had an ENFJ mother, which probably made it easier to share my thoughts and feelings and to feel understood. It's true though that it takes awhile for people to get to know the more vulnerable parts of me, but it's not a conscious thing really at all. Sometimes I don't even know what all's in there until it comes out. It's just that the more comfortable I feel around someone and the more interested they are in knowing, the more of me they'll see. Similarly, the more miscommunication there is, lack of interest or devaluing of what matters to me, the less I show. Again, that is not so much conscious as unconsciously done.

I feel much better when people know me well, but I don't want to impose myself, and especially the more difficult parts of myself on them until I am pretty sure that both they and I can deal with it alright. That's one of the reasons why you won't hear an INFJ telling you their most candid thoughts until there is a lot of trust built up, especially if those thoughts or feelings are negative and could impact the relationship. With my ENTJ friend, around the end of the second year of us spending all of our time together, I finally told him that some things he was doing seemed really inconsistent to me (other friends had been frustrated about the same and told him, which opened up the discussion after another incident) and also told him that I was frustrated that there wasn't a lot of give and take in the friendship. Everything was on his terms.

The matter of fact way he handled it, and the openness and interest he expressed in knowing actually made me feel the closest to him that I ever had. 15 years later, we are still in touch. He is married, with a baby, and so I on purpose have not regularly skyped or called because I don't think I'd like that if I were his wife, even though I have no interest in him (but he did in me at one time).

With my ESTJ, his ability to get me to try new things and his skill as a teacher made willing to take risks doing things that I normally wouldn't in front of someone until I had known them for many years. He had a great way of explaining things without making me feel foolish and he loved sharing new skills or getting me to try food that I normally wouldn't enjoy. He also made me venture into social settings that I normally would avoid and made them an enjoyable experience.

That made me feel an instant kind of attraction for him from the very start. On the other hand, the way he handled conflict and his need to not hear anything that could upset him emotionally, as well as his need to appear emotionally invulnerable (to the point of actually retelling events to myself and others in such a way that I began to question my own sanity until finding objective evidence that my initial impressions and memories had indeed been correct) threw up more and more barriers between us until there was very little left to talk about. There was too much unresolved conflict and I did feel like I even knew what he valued about me. In fact, the very thing that had attracted me became a sore point, as there was no skill that I had (even ones that he was trying to learn), where he was willing to put himself in a vulnerable position to learn from me, yet expected me to put myself in that position all of the time.

Most people that I've liked (and therefore wanted to open up to) are people that are extroverted (are very comfortable socially and are good at making me feel comfortable in their social world too), people that are clear in their interest (rather than leaving me wondering and unsure and therefore tentative about opening up), and people who verbalize what it is about me that they like (I can see a role for myself in the relationship and know how to make them happy). Something that I more seldom experience, but which does make me open up is someone asking me questions about myself and also about how I think without debating, but just to gather information and understand me. The process of answering those questions also helps me understand myself and the world around me better, and anyone who can make that happen is someone that I'm going to value and want to be open with. One of the reasons that I enjoy this forum is that it is a catalyst for me to answer questions or state opinions - something which I do less openly and comfortably in the real world and something that many people aren't that interested in there. (I'm not implying I'm unhappy with them, but just that it is rare to have someone really want to know what makes you tick).
 

olivetti

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[MENTION=8244]Eilonwy[/MENTION] and others - Is that true? How does that manifest? What does it look like?

For me it is, but I can't speak for everyone. It's a trust thing: Your actions and how you treat others and how you get to know me all comes together. If I don't know you, I can't trust you, and if I can't trust you I can't get close to you. I do eventually get close in a relationship, but it takes a long, long time. But I may be worse than the average INFJ because of my orientation (demisexual). So I can't promise that my situation is equal to another person's situation.

I'm much better at getting to know people online and talking with them via the internet - it's easier to deepen a relationship that way, without getting overloaded with how I should act/appear to someone else. If that makes sense.
 

the state i am in

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too much to say to be comprehensive, but online, much of the proclaimed hate is primarily rhetoric, ideology, projection. in situations with actual infjs, sometimes there are just some basic enneagrammatic sensitivities regarding boundaries, self-esteem, and blame, that can tend to escalate shit fast.

in real life, frustrations tend to mount regarding moments of moral certainty regarding sense of purpose and a lack of realization of one's own experience. when i'm not paying attention to and owning my own experience, i'm not going to do very well fully respecting that of others and relating to it with a delicate touch.

balance is great, but idealizing it too much beyond an aesthetic quality that informs us about a deeper connection to life can prevent us from accepting and appreciating things as they are and allowing them to take their own paths.

eta: most fjs have these issues. i do think efjs tend to get more social reps, so they have an opportunity to figure out some of these things a little faster and a little smoother. a little earlier awakening/attention to presence (Pe) also helps. i notice i'm slow and have tended to rely on others throughout my 20s to supply many types of awareness i simply hadn't experienced or cultivated yet to get me through.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I don't hate anyone but I dislike it when smug, preachy people tell me how I should feel. I'm not saying INFJ = smug preachy though.
 

Ene

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[MENTION=8244]Eilonwy[/MENTION] and others - Is that true? How does that manifest? What does it look like?

I think it depends on a person's definition of close.

[MENTION=21639]SilentMusings[/MENTION] what do you mean by close? What constitutes closeness in your way of seeing?
If I knew that then I could attempt a fair and accurate answer.
 

Fidelia

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Oh yeah, that never occurred to me either - others might feel closeness differently than what I might feel it to be. So I guess that would change the answer depending on what aspect of closeness the other person was referring to...

What do you see it as, [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION]?
 

highlander

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Oh yeah, that never occurred to me either - others might feel closeness differently than what I might feel it to be. So I guess that would change the answer depending on what aspect of closeness the other person was referring to...

What do you see it as, [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION]?

I don't know - I'm just reacting to the point SM made. It surprised me because it seemed like something INFJs would do better than average. For me, I would describe it as depth of intimacy. How do you explain that? Being honest, open, vulnerable, expressing innermost thoughts, expressing deep caring for another person. It's hard to explain. I think it is probably a unique depth of connection between a couple of people.
 

Fidelia

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We can be really good at making people feel cared for, and tend towards wanting to please and accommodate in some regards. As far as being open and vulnerable ourselves though...in my experience, that depends more on whether the other person is interested, and in many/most of my relationships and friendships, I think I'm more interested in understanding who the other person is than the other way around. They may feel close, but only because they've shared more with me than they've ever been accustomed to sharing with other people, not because I've poured out my heart and soul to them. So it feels intimate to them, but I don't experience the same level of that feeling. I'm not saying that in a poor me way. It's just that a lot of people who are most likely to be attracted to INFJs are attracted because those are not their strong points. Their strengths lie in other areas. At the same time, as a self-defense mechanism, we like to maintain a lot of control over our own emotional worlds and only offer the edited version, which can be frustrating to NFP types at times (hence SH maybe feeling that we don't let people in at all).
 

Mole

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The Close Wrapped Psyche

We can be really good at making people feel cared for, and tend towards wanting to please and accommodate in some regards. As far as being open and vulnerable ourselves though...in my experience, that depends more on whether the other person is interested, and in many/most of my relationships and friendships, I think I'm more interested in understanding who the other person is than the other way around. They may feel close, but only because they've shared more with me than they've ever been accustomed to sharing with other people, not because I've poured out my heart and soul to them. So it feels intimate to them, but I don't experience the same level of that feeling. I'm not saying that in a poor me way. It's just that a lot of people who are most likely to be attracted to INFJs are attracted because those are not their strong points. Their strengths lie in other areas. At the same time, as a self-defense mechanism, we like to maintain a lot of control over our own emotional worlds and only offer the edited version, which can be frustrating to NFP types at times (hence SH maybe feeling that we don't let people in at all).

A close wrapped soul.

But worse, a close wraped soul manipulating others.

Emotional intimacy can only be obtained by reciprocity.

Emotional intimacy is a shared activity, it is turn and turn about, it is shared joy, shared fear, shared perplexity.

As we become one with our shared emotion, we become one with each other.

Emotional manipulation is simply creepy.

Emotional manipulation is a sign something is amiss in the psyche.

So we close wrap our psyche, at first to protect us, but find we are strangling in the wrapping.
 

greenfairy

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- passive aggression
- Messiah complex
- covertly control/think they "know what's best for you"
- collectivist
- out of touch with reality
Hey, what's wrong with being a collectivist? And what if we really do know what's best for you? ;) And quantum physics shows that reality is relative to the observer!
 

Eilonwy

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I don't know - I'm just reacting to the point SM made. It surprised me because it seemed like something INFJs would do better than average. For me, I would describe it as depth of intimacy. How do you explain that? Being honest, open, vulnerable, expressing innermost thoughts, expressing deep caring for another person. It's hard to explain. I think it is probably a unique depth of connection between a couple of people.

I wouldn't read too much into [MENTION=21639]SilentMusings[/MENTION]' point. If his forum persona is anything to go by, I don't think INFJs will be the only ones he'll be pissed off at for refusing to get close in a relationship. Just my opinion.

However, to answer your question, no, I don't think INFJs would do better than average at being close in relationships. It might not be that we refuse to get close, but, much like [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION] said, we tend to keep a tight rein on our own emotions. In order to avoid conflict, we might be less than honest, open, or vulnerable.
 

Ene

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I don't know - I'm just reacting to the point SM made. It surprised me because it seemed like something INFJs would do better than average. For me, I would describe it as depth of intimacy. How do you explain that? Being honest, open, vulnerable, expressing innermost thoughts, expressing deep caring for another person. It's hard to explain. I think it is probably a unique depth of connection between a couple of people.

In light of those descriptions, I don't know about others, but this INFJ is more than willing to get close to another in a relationship, especially the INTJ in my life. He, along with a male ISTP and an ISTJ, are my closest friends. I do have one ENFJ and one INFP that I also share a lot with, but not as much. Still, because he is an INTJ and has the same dominant function, he seems to understand the need for space and autonomy. We share that value. I don't pry. He doesn't either. Yet, we share intimate details of our lives. He says we are close. We spend a lot of time talking, him telling me about his ideas, me helping him refine them. We discuss theories, too. I would say our relationship is a meeting of minds but it is very satisfying for both of us.

I have a theory that we are as much alike as we are different. If both the INFJ and the INTJ have a balanced perception of self and of each other, there is no reason why it can't be a mutually rewarding relationship.

I can't imagine a lack of closeness under these descriptors among these two types.

I do know that what makes one person feel close may not make the other feel that way. I feel close to my INTJ friend because we share our deepest ideas, inside jokes and ways of looking at the world.
 

Fidelia

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I think I value closeness over fear of conflict, but I'm gonna make sure the relationship can handle the weight of my authentic self, including the less pleasant emotions before I put myself out there completely. Again, it's not a conscious decision, so much as a feeling of safety thing. The more important the relationship is to me, the more careful I'm going to be.
 
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