User Tag List

First 101819202122 Last

Results 191 to 200 of 250

  1. #191
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    yupp
    Posts
    29,781

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    It was crunchy and dare I say.......nutty?

    you don't bite them, jesus now wer'e gonna have 70 lawsuits
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so
    Likes MDP2525, Z Buck McFate, Masokissed liked this post

  2. #192
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE None
    Posts
    6,592

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    A fair comment, yes and well said. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

    When it gets right down to it of course, we are all broken in some way. Ergo, since we are all broken, the comment has no meaning. From my Fi pov, it's already been discarded.
    There in most likely is the problem. Even if we are all broken, it does not lack meaning. You just used the phrase several times in several posts.

    WUR threw out statement A. No one disagrees with it, as every type can be unhealthy in some way, as you just said.

    Statement B, which you just said in a previous post was directed at "broken INFJs", therefore, has meaning. And if every person is broken in some way, then saying broken INFJs should be locked up means all INFJs should be locked up. Again, meaning.

    Statement B is therefore horrendous typism. Further digging into this by WUR compounded it. And when called upon it, she dug deeper rather than actually look at the meaning.

    And you seem to lack the ability to discern this meaning either until it was pointed out to you and still you wonder, which seems a bit odd. You "discarded" it.

    Add in the Fe need to actually listen to others and to weigh whether something is valid because it was expressed, and there is a nasty, nasty comment, not one without meaning.

    I find it interesting that this is the path we go down though -- basically, how broken is broken? What defines broken? I get that this processing area for INFJs is the focal point, the slippery slope so to speak, of Ni - Ti working to create cogency.
    Why bring Ti into it? Fe & Ni doesn't need Ti to react to comments like this. Fe is finding meaning in the external world after all, among other things. Fe feels the tug, the meaning, just like you said you disregard it as you read it.

    I don't get to throw away the words I don't think are important. I weigh each and every one. And just because others might throw them out willy-nilly thinking that they are just words, they don't matter, they matter to Fe.

    Ti really doesn't play much role in Ni cogency. I am not a INFJ, of course, but the shit is just there for me, I don't ponder how it all fits together.

    Yet we leapt from general to personal, without anyone stepping in to ask for clarity first. Without the premise of good intention, or at least, neutral intention.
    It is a hate INFJ thread (one of very many on the internet in various places and I suspect that there are more hate INFJ threads than for any other type on the entire internet, despite the very limited numbers of INFJs in the world). What good intentions could be assumed when someone posts that "broken INFJs" should be locked up? And isn't assuming intentions at all a very bad thing in Fi land?

    Fe takes things personally, or at least considers them personally, because that is what Fe does. Feelings in the world after all, not internal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

    9w8 6w5 4w5 sx/so

    ----------------------

    “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984

  3. #193
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    i'm on board with what hel has contributed. to me, as an e4, much of my challenge comes from how obsessed i can become with deciding upon whether or not i am broken... even if, in more lucid moments, i also recogne the way in which such an idea completely dissolves into nothing and everything all at once, a deeper sense of experience and identity that cannot be reduced to such a label. yet, in my own experience, the sensitivity and the speed of the DROP cannot really be described. just like having to rescue a child on a super thin sheet of ice.

    as for the jump you see, i see "institutionalization" as "locked up." looking at the basic history of insane asylums and the way that process continues to represent the core attitudes we in society have towards "mental illness," makes that threat seem like an act of violence (one which i'm not even really personally offended by, but which if i were in a different place and was more part of the situation, i would easily be triggered by, bc it seems like an attack, an attempt to define my reality instead of listening to me or approaching me with any curiosity (the mental component of empathy). the feeling of being invaded by violence with the very real fears and self-doubts just mix and create a volatile solution.

    i do think, too, that like T types can get hooked on facts, Fe types at least can get hooked on meanings/gestures. and sometimes it does feel like fp/tj /ALL types can deny intent when the motivational energy seems quite obvious. it's harder for me to believe that the meaning is accidental, when to me it's less accidental and more subconscious/part of a reaction.

    with that said, when we react and get equally hooked on ONLY MEANING MATTERS, we often lose sight of that other way of putting the situation in context and just paraphrasing, "WUR sounds a bit angry" (ie it's about the other person too, so i don't need to take this personally). that attempt at committing to my own objective context, some Ti story sense, is the primary resource i have for steadying out what is happening. when i do my best, i actually go back and review the interaction more closely, instead of just allowing myself to jump to conclusions without really examining the flow. doing the Fi thing is even more challenging, bc it's both against the grain, like Ti, but also then flipping the script, focusing on internal history. definitely not a strength. my best way of listening is getting myself really steadied physically and then allowing myself to use the meaning as clues to finally test things internally with my own kind of model of emotions/needs. it wasn't until a couple of years ago, however, where needs became part of my vocabulary. and i really couldn't get thru the first couple of superficial layers with myself to really offer empathy. i mean, hell, we start out using ideas outside in the world that we test emotionally based on what we think the best world would be like (would this be good for me to be/be part of?). going backwards against the grain to learn what our deepest needs are, and to be able to offer a way of listening from that place, is a huge challenge. i really truly feel like the only reason i have any sense of it at all is that i was explicitly TAUGHT it by nfps. the ongoing presence of my infp 9w1 mom probably helps, but i also have tons of empathy fails, precipitated quite frequently based on how shitty i can be at actually empathizing with myself, cleaning myself off on the inside from emotional reactions, and staying focused on how to proceed.

    in the end tho, healthy boundaries are just really challenging for some people. and that outgassing is part of what motivates some of the most sensitive people to just climb into their bubbles and shrivel away.

    ps one major disagreement--entjs are sooooooooo about reading between the lines. they're just better than us at controlling them. they are masters of assumption, who are so fast with them that they can actually do real shit. the idea that Te can't be sneaky or have/act on behalf of ulterior motives doesn't hold true for me, even if i can imagine the hyperliteral quality of some of the estjs i know providing alternative evidence. bluntness and strategy can coexist (i almost linked to Mark Cuban's twitter feed, hehe, but a better example would be louis ck). i think the anti-Te sentiment some Fe types feel is that Te can just take over and we can feel helpless to defeat it, because if we don't know how to interject or feel like we can ask to be heard on our own terms, it really can just SKIP us and what we can contribute when it is deciding what is considers to be important. like swords vs nerf footballs, when we were actually looking to play a team sport in the first place.
    Likes magpie, Masokissed, Eilonwy liked this post

  4. #194
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    CROW
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    LII None
    Posts
    9,040

    Default

    If I've had an issue with INFJs, it's been with specific individuals. I wouldn't generalize to a problem with a specific type.

    I've known a few INFJs who have actually been incredibly helpful towards me, which I actually appreciate. One in particular essentially taught me that there's nothing wrong with focusing on yourself and your own needs on occasion, which was something I needed to learn.
    Likes Forever liked this post

  5. #195
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Annnnnnd here we go! This is the point where I will historically walk down this path with you all, but no, I am not chasing anyone down this rabbit hole YET AGAIN.

    SfP, I am finding you insufferable now.

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Statement B, which you just said in a previous post was directed at "broken INFJs", therefore, has meaning. And if every person is broken in some way, then saying broken INFJs should be locked up means all INFJs should be locked up. Again, meaning.
    No one said all broken INFJs should be locked up. No one said this. No one who isn't an INFJ, that is.

    Statement B is therefore horrendous typism. Further digging into this by WUR compounded it. And when called upon it, she dug deeper rather than actually look at the meaning.
    Since no one said it, there's no typism.

    And you seem to lack the ability to discern this meaning either until it was pointed out to you and still you wonder, which seems a bit odd. You "discarded" it.
    Because Ji in the dominant position has already discarded it as illogical. It's not odd, it's simply when I see statements like that, I know they have no real meaning, nor do I believe Rex meant this train of thought in her original statement.

    I agree it would have been good to challenge for accuracy, as it was noxious.

    However, since no INFJ in here articulated hel's extrapolation of INFJ reactions before her posts, I do not feel that this is why everyone is up in arms on the matter. In fact, I can sense this is not the case. YET, since it's been nicely presented by hel, I see there's going to be a bandwagon effect of "Yes, that's why we are standing up!" I would really, really like you all to NOT simply attach yourselves to the convenience of this, but search your own inner self to source out the emotions and thus try to identify the personal concerns in there.

    Add in the Fe need to actually listen to others and to weigh whether something is valid because it was expressed, and there is a nasty, nasty comment, not one without meaning.
    This is typism too. See me in here? I am listening. I don't have Fe. Yet I actually listen to others. What a concept, Fi can listen. According to Nardi's brain studies, INFPs are actually in the flow as listeners. This comment is backhandedly insulting.

    Why bring Ti into it? Fe & Ni doesn't need Ti to react to comments like this. Fe is finding meaning in the external world after all, among other things. Fe feels the tug, the meaning, just like you said you disregard it as you read it.
    *sigh* no, that statement wasn't intended in the way it's been conflated and extrapolated. Should we be careful with words? Absolutely.

    But how about a little investigating first, before we grab the torches and light Rex on fire?

    I don't get to throw away the words I don't think are important. I weigh each and every one. And just because others might throw them out willy-nilly thinking that they are just words, they don't matter, they matter to Fe.
    I find this so insulting and hurtful here. You might as well say Fe is the only function that's got the corner on caring. What a hypocritical statement.

    Ti really doesn't play much role in Ni cogency. I am not a INFJ, of course, but the shit is just there for me, I don't ponder how it all fits together.
    Well, it looks to me like you are getting all butt-hurt like an INFJ. Just saying. And yeah, I'm pissed with you.


    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i do think, too, that like T types can get hooked on facts, Fe types at least can get hooked on meanings/gestures. and sometimes it does feel like fp/tj /ALL types can deny intent when the motivational energy seems quite obvious. it's harder for me to believe that the meaning is accidental, when to me it's less accidental and more subconscious/part of a reaction.
    I hear you but this is a very cruel assumption.

    with that said, when we react and get equally hooked on ONLY MEANING MATTERS, we often lose sight of that other way of putting the situation in context and just paraphrasing, "WUR sounds a bit angry" (ie it's about the other person too, so i don't need to take this personally). that attempt at committing to my own objective context, some Ti story sense, is the primary resource i have for steadying out what is happening. when i do my best, i actually go back and review the interaction more closely, instead of just allowing myself to jump to conclusions without really examining the flow. doing the Fi thing is even more challenging, bc it's both against the grain, like Ti, but also then flipping the script, focusing on internal history. definitely not a strength. my best way of listening is getting myself really steadied physically and then allowing myself to use the meaning as clues to finally test things internally with my own kind of model of emotions/needs. it wasn't until a couple of years ago, however, where needs became part of my vocabulary. and i really couldn't get thru the first couple of superficial layers with myself to really offer empathy. i mean, hell, we start out using ideas outside in the world that we test emotionally based on what we think the best world would be like (would this be good for me to be/be part of?). going backwards against the grain to learn what our deepest needs are, and to be able to offer a way of listening from that place, is a huge challenge. i really truly feel like the only reason i have any sense of it at all is that i was explicitly TAUGHT it by nfps. the ongoing presence of my infp 9w1 mom probably helps, but i also have tons of empathy fails, precipitated quite frequently based on how shitty i can be at actually empathizing with myself, cleaning myself off on the inside from emotional reactions, and staying focused on how to proceed.
    Thanks for sharing your internals, I appreciate this as always.

    the idea that Te can't be sneaky or have/act on behalf of ulterior motives doesn't hold true for me, even if i can imagine the hyperliteral quality of some of the estjs i know providing alternative evidence.
    I didn't say this, btw.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
    Likes Amargith, magpie, Hard, Masokissed, ceecee and 2 others liked this post

  6. #196
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 sp/so
    Socionics
    EIE Fe
    Posts
    7,977

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    There in most likely is the problem. Even if we are all broken, it does not lack meaning. You just used the phrase several times in several posts.

    WUR threw out statement A. No one disagrees with it, as every type can be unhealthy in some way, as you just said.

    Statement B, which you just said in a previous post was directed at "broken INFJs", therefore, has meaning. And if every person is broken in some way, then saying broken INFJs should be locked up means all INFJs should be locked up. Again, meaning.

    Statement B is therefore horrendous typism. Further digging into this by WUR compounded it. And when called upon it, she dug deeper rather than actually look at the meaning.

    And you seem to lack the ability to discern this meaning either until it was pointed out to you and still you wonder, which seems a bit odd. You "discarded" it.

    Add in the Fe need to actually listen to others and to weigh whether something is valid because it was expressed, and there is a nasty, nasty comment, not one without meaning.


    Why bring Ti into it? Fe & Ni doesn't need Ti to react to comments like this. Fe is finding meaning in the external world after all, among other things. Fe feels the tug, the meaning, just like you said you disregard it as you read it.

    I don't get to throw away the words I don't think are important. I weigh each and every one. And just because others might throw them out willy-nilly thinking that they are just words, they don't matter, they matter to Fe.

    Ti really doesn't play much role in Ni cogency. I am not a INFJ, of course, but the shit is just there for me, I don't ponder how it all fits together.



    It is a hate INFJ thread (one of very many on the internet in various places and I suspect that there are more hate INFJ threads than for any other type on the entire internet, despite the very limited numbers of INFJs in the world). What good intentions could be assumed when someone posts that "broken INFJs" should be locked up? And isn't assuming intentions at all a very bad thing in Fi land?

    Fe takes things personally, or at least considers them personally, because that is what Fe does. Feelings in the world after all, not internal.
    I'm just going to be blunt: This is a sack of shit. PeaceBaby already pointed out how and why, but man you are really making a TON of leaps of logic and assumptions here. It's almost like you're looking for a problem that isn't even there, and reading into specific words WAY too much.

    Seriously though, no one here is adovocating, or even implying the things you are taking issue here with.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  7. #197
    eye of the storm magpie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,560

    Default

    There's a reason I said I was wary of projecting. I think I may have. This thread just seems to be about everyone's issues now.
    Likes Starry liked this post

  8. #198
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I hear you but this is a very cruel assumption.
    i think it is the reality of the mind. i think people make mistakes. i think the world we bring into ourselves, that we internalize, has endless contradictions and ways in which different baggage comes along with it. the emotional energy thru which we contextualize all of that and all of our learning and all of our moments in which we are creating experience within ourselves all build upon it. it's a very vulnerable position to be in, which actually helps me care about myself and others more, bc i realize that what is happening at the core of the person is still worth it. but i don't need to look away from the other larger implications of what we do in order to appreciate that. for me, there is a wonderful and confusing sense in which we ARE somewhat responsible for our ideologies as well, even as we can not fully escape from them.

    Thanks for sharing your internals, I appreciate this as always.
    thank you. it's good for me too.

    I didn't say this, btw.
    heard. you were simply talking about Te, not Te doms. even if the Te aspects of the writing were taking precedence when defining where the writing was coming from over the fact that the words themselves were from a Te dom.

    what i heard at the time was that Te doesn't get to be held accountable to any form of intent, bc they just "say what they mean," intent would be the mistake of reading between the lines. to me, this felt like a cop-out. Te is trying to do things, other people are involved, shit happens. my assumption is that emotions are part of all things, all the time, even if dealing with those skillfully does mean carving out a space to strategize how to work with them. in this way, the "between the lines" thing is always present. to me, each function winning too much, within a person and within a society, has a cost. that cost, however, doesn't make them ugly. at a social level, we all just become leaders in different ways, at times with critical importance.

    it is difficult to come to consensus, bc while it is great to simply say, hey, i'm being triggered by this, at times we do have to fight for things too. the ebb and flow of this, so contingent on establishing real trust, otherwise gets very messy and chaotic. except for those rare moments when we're in a more complete space, explaining the why, especially across type, becomes an epic journey.

  9. #199
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Here's the thing: I don't care about who's right or wrong.

    You Je types can battle it all out in the arena with blood and guts and gore if you want to, see who takes the most points and wins the day.

    Have at it.

    I couldn't care less.

    I care that other people are being FAIR. That's what I sometimes point out.

    And I care about what's true. True often has very little to do with right or wrong.

    I see both sides as having right and wrong points.

    I care that Rex has caused some pain, intentionally or not.

    I care that the INFJs lasered in on Rex's words without clarification.

    I care that new words have been invented to convey this extrapolated meaning.

    It matters to me that no one has asked Rex, "Is this what you are saying?"

    I care that Rex has tried to reestablish good relations.

    I care that Forever shared an internal truth.

    That's why I get into these discussions.

    So y'all can keep on arguing past each other, and get back to me anyone who wants to find the middle ground. Who wants to figure out how to communicate better, because that's a rosetta stone I've been looking for in here for a while.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
    Likes cascadeco, Forever, Hard, Amargith, Masokissed liked this post

  10. #200
    Musician Forever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    7,245

    Default

    Yeah guys, I'm feeling a little bit better already.

    I personally want to thank @Starry , @five sounds , and @PeaceBaby for helping me no matter who was right/wrong in this matter.

    In my time zone as of 5:05 PM:
    12 members, 0 guests.

    Shit's real, yo.
    Likes five sounds, cascadeco, Starry, N/A, PeaceBaby liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. Why do you hate humanity?
    By Agent Jelly in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 08-11-2011, 10:41 PM
  2. [INFP] Why do people Hate the idea of being INFP?
    By CrystalViolet in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 95
    Last Post: 05-23-2011, 10:39 PM
  3. Why do religions hate gays so darn much?
    By Kasper in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 183
    Last Post: 09-11-2010, 03:27 AM
  4. [NT] "Why do you hate me?"
    By Haphazard in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 01-18-2009, 10:09 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO