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  1. #161
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    ...I didn't properly introduce why I exploded in the first place, I understand myself better and it's not worth explaining when I'm still vulnerable and upset and the reason is NOT listed in these recent posts here.

    ^I've been trying to get the members of this forum to recognize that there is a type related component to what just occurred here during this recent exchange for a couple of years now to no avail...only to see Ni dom after Ni dom turned into the "town crazy" and run out of town.

    I too feel extremely uncomfortable with references to "group institutions" (although gaslighting is kinda fun).
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  2. #162
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    One so-called hate group = "others" in general? Interesting.

  3. #163
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anaximander View Post
    Sometimes it's easier to deal with "bossy" TJs than to deal with less overtly bossy, but more manipulative types, IME.
    Well, there's bossy and then there's mean. And NTJs can cross over into directly mean.

    Whether or not I'd choose an NTJ being directly mean (plain vitriol) vs. and NP being manipulative (veiled vitriol) has more to do with the amount of anger/entitlement fueling it than the behavior itself.

    ***

    (My point was, though, that all types have their shitty behavior *and* INFJ shitty behavior does actually look like WUR is describing it. IMO.)


    eta: And I think the inability to hear it is indeed a matter of incoming information expanding in a way that wasn't intended (A -> C, skipping B)- and bickering over details is actually just going to make it worse. I'd intended to somehow point that out, and somehow completely didn't. At any rate, it's just difficult to watch someone trigger defensiveness (however inadvertently) in an INFJ and then get mean (however inadvertently) in pointing out how their defensiveness is making them example of bad INFJness.

    further eta:
    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    there is a type related component to what just occurred here during this recent exchange for a couple of years now to no avail..only to see Ni dom after Ni dom turned into the "town crazy" and run out of town.
    Yeah, I'm not sure I'd say there was gaslighting going on per se, but this^ is what's bothering me about this exchange.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  4. #164
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    ^I've been trying to get the members of this forum to recognize that there is a type related component to what just occurred here during this recent exchange for a couple of years now to no avail...only to see Ni dom after Ni dom turned into the "town crazy" and run out of town.

    I too feel extremely uncomfortable with references to "group institutions" (although gaslighting is kinda fun).
    Well, it seems to me that the people who don't see the type-related component are primarily the INFJs themselves.

    So, what next? The answer / response to (what you're potentially labelling) gaslighting (whether intentional or not) isn't the Ti-fail argument that "Other types are bad too!" or "You're so mean!"
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #165
    Dope& diamonds. Dyslexxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    ^^I hate it when NTPs do this. Hate.

    (Is there a NTP hate thread I can get busy in?)
    Of course there is. Go for it. It's getting a little dull in there so we need the hate. There's a specific ENTP one too if you're interested!
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  6. #166
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    I forgot why I could hate INFJs until this thread.

  7. #167
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    some ppl will ignore reality specially if everyone around them points it out, and instead manages to spin it towards others instead...
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.
    Likes Forever, Starry liked this post

  8. #168
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Well, it seems to me that the people who don't see the type-related component are primarily the INFJs themselves.

    So, what next? The answer / response to (what you're potentially labelling) gaslighting (whether intentional or not) isn't the Ti-fail argument that "Other types are bad too!" or "You're so mean!"

    I haven't been sleeping all that well this week <-and feel that is contributing to my inability to understand really what you are saying here. Because of this I feel kinda bad to ask you to clarify because I can't guarantee I'll understand the clarification... but at least at some point I'd like to know your meaning...

  9. #169
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexxie View Post
    Of course there is. Go for it. It's getting a little dull in there so we need the hate. There's a specific ENTP one too if you're interested!

    Note to self: Don't try to make light in a hate thread.
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  10. #170
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I haven't been sleeping all that well this week <-and feel that is contributing to my inability to understand really what you are saying here. Because of this I feel kinda bad to ask you to clarify because I can't guarantee I'll understand the clarification... but at least at some point I'd like to know your meaning...
    No worries, happy to clarify. Let me put together something more specific - might be later this evening.

    The gist of it though, bottom-line, is what can people do to help in these types of situations - what can INFJs do to help themselves (and what can their type-mates do) and what can other types bring to the table to help de-escalate yet validate the INFJ and assist them in discussion or to articulate (in a reasonably cogent timeframe) what the issue is.

    Because frankly, look at the baggage that's being brought back up in here about Pe yet again. That's years worth of time of processing with progress at about the rate of a snail leaving a slime-goo trail across Canada. That's not realistic in an environment geared towards mortality. It does formulate a portion of why some INFJs drive people nuts. 'Cause by all means, let's have a grievance that needs years worth of time to process so that we never talk about it directly, but can be used to poke and poke for all of that time. It is very hurtful (eta I'd go so far to say at this point it is actually abusive, sanctioned abuse at that).

    I'm looking for the win-win solution-wise. Otherwise I be riding on my horse and gunslinging (figuratively speaking) my way across the desert.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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