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  1. #151
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    My experience with the shared reality is that Je types super-love it when that "manipulation" suits what they want to see happen in the outer world. Pe types can satisfy every immediate need you have, know how to make "now" wonderful, generally speaking (relevant to the strengths of each respective Pe dom and aux strength of course.)

    But when the shit hits the fan? When Pe types get caught in a pickle of a long-term consequence? The worst part can be that we did all the short-term things to be helpful, but all of that is sometimes thrown out the window and forgotten. So, fuck that. Pe helping make your NOW optimized and nice has real value. Ungrateful sots.

    btw, saying that every type has strengths and weaknesses is a Ti fail of the obvious. OF COURSE they do.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #152
    Musician Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    If you had stopped at the bolded in your first quote, I would agree that your first quote is equivalent to the bolded being said about ENTJs in your second quote. Adding your opinion about "People like them are the reason mental institutions were invented in the first place." was insulting and took your valid criticism into an unnecessary emotional arena, imo. *Perhaps your inferior Fi having its say?

    *ETA: I ask this about inferior Fi as a valid question. I'm trying to see if this is why that particular communication stung so much.
    On point. That added sentence was like asking for a fight. Had she just left the first sentence alone I would've been like "meh" sometimes I'm not even concerned about the message if the intent is so off.

    Edit: to make it even clearer, the mental institution is the added sentence I am referring to.
    I am now going to explicit the implicit now:

    What saying that "we" are the cause for mental institution implies that we are the only mentally sick people in the world and if you are any of the 15 other types, you're safe/or a much lower chance from being mentally sick and having disorders.

    Do you see how someone could get upset if they're the only type who is not "safe"? What if I was mentally sick and trying to fight it, I'm suddenly a monster? That makes me want to punch a wall, oh wait no I can't, I'll be institutionalized. But any of the other 15 types of course can.

    It could also be interpreted we are the prevalent cause of mental illness. Whatever, but it's all done.
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  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    And NTJs- they do get equally as "shitty", but they don't really get manipulative (largely because they can't be bothered to pay enough attention to how people work to figure out how to manipulate), they just get directly mean.
    Sometimes it's easier to deal with "bossy" TJs than to deal with less overtly bossy, but more manipulative types, IME.
    Masculine presenting transgender lesbian


    At heart, I’ll always be a bleeding heart liberal.

  4. #154
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexxie View Post
    Alright. This is clearly getting a little out of hand.
    ^^I hate it when NTPs do this. Hate.

    (Is there a NTP hate thread I can get busy in?)
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  5. #155
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    First, yes, we can be phenomenal pains in the asses in much the way WUR described. There's quite a bit of questionable 'feedback' about INFJs in this forum, but I do think the initial post that started this spate of bickering is actually more based on reality than the usual reason. But I don't think this (bolded) is necessarily the reason Forever is getting wound up. And- even supposing the bolded were true- it's never really productive to post assumptions about why someone else is doing something.

    eta: Point being, you are baiting, however inadvertently. /eta
    I said what I said about why Forever because he told me as much explicitly out of thread. I'm not an INFJ so I don't presume a mystical window into anyone's soul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    If you had stopped at the bolded in your first quote, I would agree that your first quote is equivalent to the bolded being said about ENTJs in your second quote. Adding your opinion about "People like them are the reason mental institutions were invented in the first place." was insulting and took your valid criticism into an unnecessary emotional arena, imo. *Perhaps your inferior Fi having its say?

    *ETA: I ask this about inferior Fi as a valid question. I'm trying to see if this is why that particular communication stung so much.
    It didn't really land actually. Simply because it wasn't as charged of a statement as you interpreted it to be.

    If a person's mental health makes them a danger to themselves and others, they can't be reasoned with and believe they're "righteous" in the harm they're doing, then that person should be removed from the general population. Especially if it's to a place where there are those trained to deal with them.

    If you can agree with the initial portion of that statement then the conclusion I arrive at is actually pretty reasonable.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth
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  6. #156
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Oh, and I'd also like directions to the Canadian hate thread...please. thanks.
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  7. #157
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Oh, and I'd also like directions to the Canadian hate thread...please. thanks.
    Now I'm offended too (since I'm Canadian, and reading between the lines this means you must surely hate me now too, and pointed this in my direction because we've had conflict in the past!)

    HOW COULD YOU STARRY?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
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  8. #158
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Now I'm offended too (since I'm Canadian, and reading between the lines this means you must surely hate me now too, and pointed this in my direction because we've had conflict in the past!)

    HOW COULD YOU STARRY?

    haha!

    (If the topic wasn't "hate"...I would totally create the "Canadian thread" because of Ne)
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  9. #159
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    It didn't really land actually. Simply because it wasn't as charged of a statement as you interpreted it to be.

    If a person's mental health makes them a danger to themselves and others, they can't be reasoned with and believe they're "righteous" in the harm they're doing, then that person should be removed from the general population. Especially if it's to a place where there are those trained to deal with them.

    If you can agree with the initial portion of that statement then the conclusion I arrive at is actually pretty reasonable.
    I don't know what you mean by "It didn't really land actually." Would you explain, please?

    Okay. I see where you were coming from on your second sentence now (what I called your opinion). I definitely didn't interpret it in the way you just explained. My initial thought is that my way of thinking sees what you said as A-->C, and I don't automatically see the B that's in between, so I misinterpret. I need to go back and re-read your OP again.

    Thanks for explaining.

    ETA: I interpreted it as a value statement. I would like to figure out why it came across as such--if it was just my way of interpreting and it wasn't a value statement at all, or if it was a value statement and I'm missing something somewhere else.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  10. #160
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    We really do need a Canadian hate thread.

    I hate them for stealing a shit ton of nice girls from my country.

    When I said stealing I meant giving them visa, not kidnapping them and using them as sex slaves.
    .
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