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  1. #91
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olivetti View Post

    That's more of a problem with Ni's bossiness, maybe. We ultimately feel that this is the right thing to do for this person, and when we mention it, we expect others to be as enlightened as we are on it. I've been caught off-guard when someone hasn't felt the same way regarding my advice, but I'm mature enough to not get mad at them for it. I'm only upset if they keep complaining to me about it after I offered a solution they didn't take.

    And that is kinda pushy, I agree.
    I personally think it's more of an issue with "Je bossiness"...and with that said have never experienced this kind of thing from INFJs. I would notice from time to time however that my INFJ ex would occasionally get his panties in a wad if I didn't share his opinion on someone or something though. When this would occur...I admit I would be standing there with cartoon question marks...most likely visible to all above my head but..."hate" never entered my mind. Just the question mark thing.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Thanks. I do understand. Not all INFJs fear intimacy.

    I also hate mind games. Hate to be coerced, manipulated, threatened, etc.
    Well, at least you are self-assured enough to be in a relationship on your own terms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I would say that the only explanation is that she really didn't want to be close and didn't have the guts or know how to tell you.

    Or, she is just emotionally immature. Teenage INFJs or people who are stuck in a teenage egocentric frame of mind, may behave in this way. Not all INFJs behave that way.

    INFJs are just like any other group of individuals, some are butt holes and some are angelic. You can't lump a whole group together and label them because of the actions of one or a few. It's no different than saying that INTJs are cold and distant. Some may be, but all are not.
    An INFJ can be emotionally immature? Heresy!

    If the above is the case (and I happen to agree) why even bother having a thread about why people hate INFJs? I know you didn't start the thread but it's a question worth asking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    About the disease question you asked Eilonwy, yes, I'd tell them because if they couldn't deal with it, they're not right for me anyway, but my worth and value doesn't depend on whether some guy finds me "worthy" or not, so there you go. I would be up front and tell him from the get-go, because it would be sticky and messy later on. Deception, manipulation, guilt-tripping, control, temper tantrums, condescension: for me those are not options. I try not to do them and I won't be with anyone who seeks to play my god by employing them...period, no exceptions.
    This is a relief to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    What happened to the thread? Haha...I guess the INFJ feminists took over!

  3. #93
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Well, at least you are self-assured enough to be in a relationship on your own terms.
    Thanks. I think for it to work, really work, both people have to understand what their own terms are, be willing to listen to the other person's, than be open and secure enough to make themselves understood. Guessing games are for kids in my opinion.

    An INFJ can be emotionally immature? Heresy!
    eek! I had a dream once that I was burned at the stake for heresy! Well, I do believe that any type can be emotionally immature.

    If the above is the case (and I happen to agree) why even bother having a thread about why people hate INFJs? I know you didn't start the thread but it's a question worth asking.
    You are right. That is a reasonable question. I don't know the answer as of right now. It really does seem like a broad generalization.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  4. #94
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    If the above is the case (and I happen to agree) why even bother having a thread about why people hate INFJs? I know you didn't start the thread but it's a question worth asking.
    That depends on how one interprets the question.

    (1) One assumes INFJs are particularly deserving of or at least received with hate, and wants to know why. If the assumption is false, the thread is pointless.

    (2) One understands that all types can be hated by others from time to time, and wants to understand the specific causes and dynamic when the hatred is directed at an INFJ. This has potential for worthwhile discussion.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #95
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Hate is such a strong word.

    Having said that I do believe that to "hate" a type tends to say more about the hater than the hated.

    There are some types I get along with better than others, but there is no type that I "hate," to do so would be to give MBTI a morally significant power that no theory should be granted, and to me, suggests that the "hater" is either very immature, still doesn't have a grasp on the typology theory, or both. Just my thoughts for whatever they're worth.
    I'ma be lazy and simply endorse this as GOOD and very similar to my thoughts on the subject to "typism".

    @OP: I think that typism is a part of the natural evolution of someone interested in typology. Eventually you/they will start labeling everyone one they know and then it starts... slowly at first... You/they will begin to notice inconsistencies of their type vs. what is "known" about X type... Inevitably, for most at least, "we" learn that typology really just a starting point and not the end all be all of a person.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    That depends on how one interprets the question.

    (1) One assumes INFJs are particularly deserving of or at least received with hate, and wants to know why. If the assumption is false, the thread is pointless.

    (2) One understands that all types can be hated by others from time to time, and wants to understand the specific causes and dynamic when the hatred is directed at an INFJ. This has potential for worthwhile discussion.
    But is the hatred directed at said INFJ because they are an INFJ? I seriously doubt anybody hates a particular personality type enough to hate someone just for that reason.

    I see threads popping up a lot where somebody looks to MBTI differences as a way of explaining weird behaviour in others. While I am happy to jokingly indulge for a while for shock value, being serious:

    I know some INFJs who are easy going and don't have much wrong with them. I have also had the misfortune to meet one who was seriously screwed up. When somebody in my life started behaving strangely, MBTI was not the tool I needed to diagnose the problem. While I think MBTI is useful in understanding a person's personality holistically (especially if they are healthy), it can easily be muddied by depression and other mental health issues.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Thanks. I think for it to work, really work, both people have to understand what their own terms are, be willing to listen to the other person's, than be open and secure enough to make themselves understood. Guessing games are for kids in my opinion.
    It takes time to trust somebody enough to be open with them. I understand that. But I really despair when there is an emotional distance between myself and somebody i care about, and I can't do anything about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    eek! I had a dream once that I was burned at the stake for heresy! Well, I do believe that any type can be emotionally immature.
    Some of my family actually were burned at the stake for heresy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    You are right. That is a reasonable question. I don't know the answer as of right now. It really does seem like a broad generalization.
    Most people are lazy and unimaginative. It is easier to call someone an unhealthy INFJ than speculate about more plausible alternatives.

  8. #98
    Member olivetti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I personally think it's more of an issue with "Je bossiness"...and with that said have never experienced this kind of thing from INFJs. I would notice from time to time however that my INFJ ex would occasionally get his panties in a wad if I didn't share his opinion on someone or something though. When this would occur...I admit I would be standing there with cartoon question marks...most likely visible to all above my head but..."hate" never entered my mind. Just the question mark thing.
    It could be a judging issue, I could see that. I also don't think a lot of types would notice when an INFJ does it, unless they're constantly watching for it. Most of the time our need to help comes with the natural flow of conversation - and when we think people are unconsciously looking for answers to their questions. I don't personally try to press my assumptions on people unless I think they want or need insights. But I do get thrown a bit when I think people are asking for advice or help, and they're really not.

    I think the OPs description of INFJs was a bit strong, but that's because I don't think any type can be "hated" per se. I think misunderstood is more likely, but misunderstanding can grow into frustration, which can then transform into anger. But hate? I think people may "hate" individuals, but I don't get the idea of hating a whole group of people who happen to share personalities. To me, that's like hating an entire ethnic group.

  9. #99
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Because they always play the victim.

    Chimera of Filth

    A gruesome beast with dripping flesh
    Clings to me as a sick fixture
    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

  10. #100
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    another thing i feel pretty confident in generalizing about, that speaks to my experience in a very deep way and seems to be illustrated through the concept of N pretty clearly, is that i do naturally identify with my dreams more than i identify with reality. this is where my consciousness begins, and so i am usually dreaming in some sense. for me as Ni, there is a strong sense of identifying with the meaning of things more than with the moment (and its constitutive interactive elements).

    i mean, in a literal sense, imagine someone is constantly asleep and responding to the dreams they are constantly having rather than from the clear, consubstantial sense of reality from which we develop an anchored sense of consensual reality. when we are stressing and at our worst, it can be a real challenge to have the skill to be able to help us weave together a bridge from the land of dreams back to the land of the sun, being awake, seeing the world and ourselves substantially and with simplicity as each is and as they are together. dreams are so personal, vivid, undefined, and what the deep underlying meanings of reality are made up of (because it is how we know them most densely, most deeply). they're often filled with complex, vague, unconscious elements that sometimes aren't able to easily be represented. to know where to start, to see what has happened and return to the ground of the moment and the tangible things we can sense and change most directly, is not always easy when waking up from an inaccessible, sometimes profound, and oftentimes wildly disorienting dream.

    i know for me, the dilated pupils, and the not all here quite yet quality can be frustrating for others. this is especially the case when i need to be direct with myself so that i can prepare to make a choice NOW and take responsibility for it, rather than waiting and hoping to use the constellations for guidance. there's a kind of conservative sluggishness/delay to me at times that needs a willingness to dive into the cold pool of experience to rectify it.

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