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  1. #21
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    My opinion on MBTI: It's a fun toy sort of like roll-playing. You can gain some things (some more than others) by playing around with it, or perhaps not.

    That's about it.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  2. #22
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Found yet another article today about how the MBTI is "worthless" because it doesn't do what it "claims" to do -- namely pick the perfect job, spouse, and life for your type.
    Hmm.. Is it marketed that way? I think it is marketed to help you figure out a job you might enjoy doing. I think it works a lot better than blind luck from that perspective. Is it marketed to help you pick a spouse? I don't think it is. Is it marketed to pick the life for your type? I don't think so there either.

    I think the problem is that it is often used in quite a shallow way. Let's say people go to a marriage counselor or there is a group thing a work - everybody takes this test and says, "Oohhh... now i see how you are different from me." Then they pretty much forget about it within a few weeks. They can't even remember their type let alone what it means or what others is. There is too much inference that type determines behavior as well, relying on these profiles that can feel a bit like reading a horoscope.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    At its best, when you're an enthusiast -- like many on this forum -- it becomes a language with which you can discuss the social and internal realm and come to better and deeper understandings about how you and others operate.
    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I like MBTI because it has opened my eyes to a lot of communication styles, thinking styles, and techniques for dealing with others and myself. It opened a lot of doors for me, and even if those doors weren't all founded entirely in the principles it set out for, for me they were positive and useful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    Whether the MBTI is statistically valid or not, it is still useful. I think it has really helped me understand myself and others on a deeper level. I think the perspective I've come to is that behavioral and cognitive processing patterns do exist. The MBTI just kind of puts a label on them enabling us to discuss them further. Whether Ne or Fi are actually things are not isn't the point. The point is that the represent behaviors and thought patterns that do exist, and enable us to discuss them.
    That is how I use it and to that end, it has been of enormous value to me personally. The single most important thing it has given me is an ability to do a better job of putting myself in another person's shoes. My career is almost a textbook example of the type of career an INTJ would enjoy. In fact, going a step further, I'm a prototype for Enneagram 6 as well. So the combination of those two types together, and what you might consider going into from a career standpoint, would actually be much more valuable than just looking at MBTI. That would be something really useful. Maybe an idea for the Wiki...

    Is it helpful for self understanding? I think it is actually. It can also be a way of putting yourself in a box though. It's something to be watchful for.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    So my discussion question here is: What can the general public -- i.e. those of us not part of the official MBTI establishment -- do? Is there anything that can be done? Clearly we are the weaker side, even though we predominate the Internet. Is there any chance that, at some point in the future, other authors on the subject can take control of this narrative and help the world see the MBTI for what it's REALLY good at?
    What can be done about the marketing? The typeism? The abuse of type profiles and what people infer by reading them?

    The best way to fight bad information is with good information and to make that information popular. So let's do that here. I don't the the MBTI establishment really causes the problem. I think they help by promoting deeper understanding of the topics. Many of them tend to look at it mostly as an "instrument" though, which I think fails to recognize the deeper value of the thing. On the flipside, some of the Enneagram practitioners go overboard in the deeper value that Enneagram brings. It is an interesting dichotomy. The criticism the MBTI establishment has of Internet forums is that there is so much bad information that people communicate. They don't seem to understand the idea that people can be fully capable of separating good information from bad information, thank you very much, and that "experts" don't always know everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Maybe this is something to mention in our "introduction to typology" for the forum.
    If we can weed out some good quotes or comments, yes I think that might be good.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  3. #23
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Our job was to improve productivity on the Leyland assembly line, so we made a change and we found it increased productivity. But we found the productivity declined after a while so we tried a new change, and guess what, productivity increased for a while then declined. And this happened with every change we made so we concluded, it didn't matter what the change was, it was the change itself that increased productivity.

    This is very similar to the placebo effect which can be as much as 30% as effective as prescribed medicine.

    However the only way to test effectiveness is with random, double blind experiments. And guess what, in 75 years there has been not one random, double blind experiment done with mbti.

    So mbti is effective because it is like a placebo or a new change, not because it is a psychometric measure.

    And the tragedy is that the effectiveness lies in increasing our ability to manipulate ourselves and one another as things.

    So mbti reifies.

    And because our society reifies us into factors of production or consumers, we find mbti makes us socially successful.

    And we are prepared to sell our souls for social success.

  4. #24
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Leave it to the engineers to approach the subject with an objective view of its strengths and weaknesses. If only that were the norm!
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  5. #25
    A Gentle Whisper ~MS*ANGEL~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Awwww!!! If you believe in MBTI, we can both see each other in Heaven YAYAYAYAYAY!!!!

    "Behold, in my father's theory there are many mansions --16 of them. And I go there to prepare a place for you."
    YAY! Thanks Jennifer!
    Only she who attempts the absurd can achieve the impossible... and then some.

    MY BLOGS: https://freestylelines.blogspot.com/, https://tfthdiary.blogspot.com/
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  6. #26
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Personally, the MBTI has helped me immensely in understanding where people are coming from and bridging communication gaps. I do like the Myers-Briggs book title "Gifts Differing" as it seems to suggest that other people are just 'different' and there is no one right way to approach anything.

    So, as an MBTI community, I think we really should get that message across and learn to celebrate differences!
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  7. #27
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    So, as an MBTI community, I think we really should get that message across and learn to celebrate differences!
    ^^ I think this would be a good overall theme for our forum! @highlander
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  8. #28
    I want my account deleted
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Personally, the MBTI has helped me immensely in understanding where people are coming from and bridging communication gaps. I do like the Myers-Briggs book title "Gifts Differing" as it seems to suggest that other people are just 'different' and there is no one right way to approach anything.

    So, as an MBTI community, I think we really should get that message across and learn to celebrate differences!
    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    ^^ I think this would be a good overall theme for our forum! @highlander
    In my observations, this site does not actually practice such a thing in its group culture and how people interact with each other. So if it is a theme that will be more than words, it would need some real changes.

    On this site, from what I have seen, it is pretty common for participants to post incredibly negative, flowing into vicious, characterizations of entire MBTI types and encourage each other in doing so. Often, the source for this approach seems to come from participants' personal issues with people in their lives who either are or are presumed to be a particular type. Among other things yielding type bashing here, people use bashing entire types as a way to evade honest exploration about whatever went wrong in bad relationships, conflicts with people in their lives etc. For example, because I am an INFJ and gravitate toward threads addressing our functions etc, I have seen that there have been more than one incredibly nasty and extremely long/ongoing threads in which multiple participants bash INFJs as a type (including anyone on the site who identifies as that type) based on participants' exes or others in their lives who are actually or assumed to be INFJ.

    And that's just one example based on my limited observations and time here. I've been told that here at typologycentral, type-bashing is not limited to any one type, that all types get their turn on this site. I'm inclined to believe it - there's a real lack of concern with type-bashing here.

    I think it would be incredibly deceptive for this site to claim its theme is celebration of difference - or any variation of the theme of using MBTI to respectfully interact across differences without superiority/inferiority - without substantial changes to the core of this site and what is actually acceptable here.
    Last edited by Werebudgie; 07-16-2014 at 03:14 PM. Reason: a few words and a phrase for clarity

  9. #29
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    @Werebudgie

    Type-bashing is natural and inevitable in a place like this. As @kyuuei and others have mentioned on this thread, it's easy to look to something like the MBTI as the answer to why such-and-such relative or ex-husband or whoever is a horrible human being. Having those people on TypeC is only a problem so long as others are unwilling to correct them. And it's important to note that since I joined, the vast majority of typism has been met with civil conversation and rebuttal. That's all we can realistically ask for, since typism can never be 100% eliminated.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #30
    I want my account deleted
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    @Werebudgie

    Type-bashing is natural and inevitable in a place like this. As @kyuuei and others have mentioned on this thread, it's easy to look to something like the MBTI as the answer to why such-and-such relative or ex-husband or whoever is a horrible human being. Having those people on TypeC is only a problem so long as others are unwilling to correct them. And it's important to note that since I joined, the vast majority of typism has been met with civil conversation and rebuttal. That's all we can realistically ask for, since typism can never be 100% eliminated.
    Yeah, there will always be individuals who do stuff like that. But the focus I was seeking to bring up is: how the collective (group culture, standards for whether X or Y is appropriate in this space) responds. And I have seen a pattern of really ugly stuff here, unchecked by any mod concern or collective participant concern with type bashing being inappropriate behavior.

    And for sure, you and I have different observations of this site. We also have different relationships to it (you as a full participant and mod, me as someone who barely participates anymore due to what I experience as dysfunction here). I don't want to get into a whole debate (or even dialogue about it), but I will suggest that you consider the possibility that even time spent on refuting type-bashing can validate that bashing in certain ways. It's like ... like if people regularly came along and went off about how all women are hysterical due to our bodies being the way they are and so women shouldn't be trusted with any responsibility, and there was a whole lot of energy poured into treating that as a reasonable thing to consider, discuss and debate. What is and isn't at the center of attention is a pretty subtle but often quite powerful part of group culture.

    Again, not going to debate this. You'll get what you get. I maintain that it would be really deceptive for this site to claim a theme as noted above. But the thread is about "rebranding" and perhaps that is more about how to market (use words to project an image, disconnected from actual practice) than actual reality anyway.

    Not going to respond further on this topic, though. As is typical for me I lack energy for dialogues here, and there's a strong group-cultural bubble here.

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