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  1. #11
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    You think it would be common sense to not take a test result into serious consideration when making important life decisions. A test I took in high school said I should become a cop but that just bounced right off of me. ESPECIALLY considering most online MBTI tests out there can be way off mark a great deal of the time (although I guess people not well-invested in it wouldn't know that).

    I get people wanna have marketable value to what they've created, but the fact of the matter is that no one is going to seriously take relationship or career advice from a test and no one wantsto take relationship or career advice from a test. The reason I first took the MBTI was because my friend linked it to me and said "it's a quiz about your personality and it's creepily accurate." Tests have always been able to guess me correctly since I've consistently scored ENFP on every test (minus similarminds where I scored INFP), so I really enjoyed the theory as a way to explore parts about myself I may have not recognized, learn about my strengths and weaknesses and how to work with them, and to bridge gaps between communication barriers. Like you said, MBTI is best used for introspection and self-discovery, so I don't really use it for other people as much as I do for myself (and I think what @kyuuei mentioned with the ENFP/ISTJ example demonstrates how ostracizing it can be if used with other people immaturely). So if people realized that MBTI really is best used internally rather than externally, I think it would gain a lot more respect and less friction with people saying that certain relationships/career paths don't suit them.

    Like people have said, it's a useful tool. With enough reflection one could easily find certain patterns within their thoughts and behavior, completely free from MBTI or any other system's teachings, but the useful thing about it is that it acts as a catalyst to discovering those patterns. And being able to learn and develop from becoming aware of these qualities in yourself further prepares you to handle traits within you that may even stray from one's "type" or "function."

    I think the best thing we as a community could do is to try and keep information like this as apparent to the public as possible. I'm a little lost for ideas otherwise, but hey maybe once I get my PhD I'll come out with a book of my own.
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  2. #12
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I think I got into typology systems for entirely the wrong reasons.

    It was me using it as a weapon to defend myself from self-revelation and my own issues, rather than as a discovery tool. Blaming the object rather than the receiver of the object.
    So of course when harsh truths cannot be ignored or lied about, they come crashing back onto me internally and I spazz out and become miserable. But the catch was that I was really poor at resolving it and not the most introspective, or rather, usefully introspective.

    I am too harsh and perfectionist on myself in some areas and not enough in others. Learning how to break the pattern of unproductive and unhelpful scattered thoughts and worries is hard.

    And accepting something on faith, which to me is what typology appears to be, is a notion I find hard to integrate. But it could just be a lack of intuition.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

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  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    My actual story is much like some of the others. i got into it, saw some patterns that were useful to me (including my own), realized I was a "type of person" versus just a weird isolated oddball and thus got some confidence out of it, but after the initial period of learning and exploring, I ran into its limitations and placed it in a more realistic context. It's helpful in some ways, but not nearly exclusive and can also be abused or misapplied.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Star View Post
    You know, I almost took it seriously until towards the end I suppose I really am gullible at times.
    Awwww!!! If you believe in MBTI, we can both see each other in Heaven YAYAYAYAYAY!!!!

    "Behold, in my father's theory there are many mansions --16 of them. And I go there to prepare a place for you."
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Found yet another article today about how the MBTI is "worthless" because it doesn't do what it "claims" to do -- namely pick the perfect job, spouse, and life for your type. Seems like at least one article like this comes out per year. I would attribute this entirely to the branding of the official MBTI: it's marketed as this, officially, and the MBTI people make boatloads of money off of training sessions and certificates every year.

    Problem is, even though that's how it's marketed, and that's part of why it was created in the first place... that's not what it's good for. The MBTI is best for general introspection: how you relate to yourself, how you relate to others, what you can do to live with yourself and the people around you better than you currently do. At its best, when you're an enthusiast -- like many on this forum -- it becomes a language with which you can discuss the social and internal realm and come to better and deeper understandings about how you and others operate.

    That's the practical application that keeps me interested. Me, an ESTJ, one of the types that typically does not stay interested. But it took a LOT of digging to make me interested in the first place. If it was marketed to me exclusively as a workplace tool, and I'd taken it at face value, I would have abandoned it a long time ago. I probably would view it as derisively as many of my friends and family, and many people in the media -- most recently, Ezra Klein (ENTJ), whose anti-MBTI article inspired me to write this.

    So my discussion question here is: What can the general public -- i.e. those of us not part of the official MBTI establishment -- do? Is there anything that can be done? Clearly we are the weaker side, even though we predominate the Internet. Is there any chance that, at some point in the future, other authors on the subject can take control of this narrative and help the world see the MBTI for what it's REALLY good at?
    I couldn't agree more. This is the same fundamental problem which exists with the Keirsey and Socionics systems.

    It's silly but someone might test ENTJ, for example, and thus have great expectations of being a "mastermind" or a "field marshall" or something. When they aren't a CEO or Congressman by age 30, they are going to feel a little cheated.

    I do blame the way the systems are marketed, but just as much I blame people for their gullible willingness to put their trust into such systems--they have unrealistic expectations.

    I can see its merits as a tool to help managers and employees of various types learn how to best work with other types.

    Western civilization and the USA in particular is a culture where people eat this sort of thing up. It vaguely falls into the same category as self-help books and seminars. As a result, the work of a visionary like Jung is trivialized and turned into another marketing fad.

  5. #15
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Interesting. You think if the MBTI fell off the radar a bit more, rather than rebranding, it would be more credible in the eyes of the general public?
    I think it would create a slower, more exclusive sort of circle that would minimize the dumbing-down of the science. Even for me, I use it too casually for what it was intended. It is suppose to be an in depth analysis. I more use it as vague, loose guidelines based on parameters I don't truly understand. Which is fine.. but I'm dumbing it down too. I seem to see like 4 different levels of it:
    - Typology for what it is--Jung, Myers, the socionics aspect of these, enneagrams, etc.
    - Critical interpretations based on expert knowledge of the material--synthesizing the concepts, or comparing them, and applying them to actual people. I think this is what those big shots are suppose to get paid to do, whether they actually do this or the one below who knows.
    - What many people I think on typology central do--Get vague summaries and generalizations, go into details and depth as they need the information, and use a bit of intuition and conversing with like minded people to guesstimate the gaps and close them for convenience while still founding it in parameters.. And the interpretations that come from that. This is sufficient for most people because they function well enough in their lives--or they're capable of fixing the things that don't function. There isn't a strenuous need to understand people because there's instinctive understandings. On the bad side of things, you don't see the whole scope.. and there's a lazy tendency to blame some aspects on type instead of deciding to grasp those negative aspects and embrace them. Or misinterpret a concept and type themselves or others wrong. This isn't so bad.. Unless you're wrongly typed for a job you're applying for that randomly created this aspect in their resumes.
    - What most of the people on NFGeeks do--Glorify it as a hard science vs a theory, ignore instincts and some common sense, and start making barney style questions that have nothing to do with the theory as if it were the end-all save-all approach to things, like "Why do ENFPs always have heart-shaped keychains and talk about how awesome Mark Wahlberg is?" because their mom does that or like how some INFP girl yesterday talked about how INFP she really is because instead of ordering the 2pc chicken basket at KFC like everyone else she ordered the fiesta bowl. (Fuuuu I wanted to claw my face off when I read that.) People use this and say, "Hey this theory works for lots of people! Lets use it for criteria for work!" without realizing their biases WILL influence this in decision making. It's an arbitrary, unnecessary thing to do for people applying for jobs, because every type can work every job out there. This makes people rebel because it swings too far in the other direction from the concept of founding the theory at all. It's only upside is it's convenience for people--instant validation, instant 'understanding' of people around them, stereotypes and generalizations that don't yet have much mainstream stigma on them and are thus acceptable, and easy blames. Because ENFPs and ISTJs are NEVER going to work out because they aren't. It isn't that you were both shitty at relationships lol.

    The bolded really pisses me off, too. What's the point of a system that requires a bit of introspection, if you aren't going to introspect?
    That stuff is boring. That KFC girl isn't attention seeking and needing validation, she's just an INFP. Those wacky INFPs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    Yes! As another type who typically "loses interest" I completely agree.

    Whether the MBTI is statistically valid or not, it is still useful.....Whether Ne or Fi are actually things are not isn't the point. The point is that the represent behaviors and thought patterns that do exist, and enable us to discuss them.

    I almost disagree with using it as a way to choose jobs, etc. I think in a way that's been a bit damaging for me. I've definitely run the "You wouldn't make a good counselor because you aren't an NF before". And I'm sorry MBTI creators, I don't WANT to be a preschool teacher. I need more intellectual stimulation than that in my daily life.
    To the bolded: Yes. It gives a LOT of names to things we instinctively saw, but had no names for. Giving things names and turning them into tangible (at least in our head) constructs makes it so much easier to identify, relate, and correlate. It's really the best part of the whole system. I can get a semi-okay idea of why someone SEEMS robotic, as stereotypical as that may be, just because someone mentioned being INTJ. Saying, "That's just the kind of guy he is" doesn't really do much for people on the grand scheme of things.

    I think jobs try to use any bullshit they can come up with to make things more elite sounding and harder to navigate. People don't want to deal with actually evaluating people.. They want to see who will bug them the most, who they can easily weed out, who will be a shoe-in and who they'll have to struggle to train. If astrology had been presented in an MBTI sort of light, they'd be using your birth time on your resume.
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  6. #16
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    "I was confused and didn't know who I was. My life was going in circles.

    "But after listening to the preaching of Carl Jung and Katherine Briggs and Isabelle Myers, I invited MBTI into my heart and now I have a personal relationship with it. The whole world changed for me. I finally had a reason and purpose to live, and I'm so much happier now that I know who I am. Everything finally makes sense.

    I just want to share this happiness that I have found with the rest of the world. it can change your life too, just like it changed mine! Won't you consider inviting MBTI into your heart? Praise Jung, Praise Myers, Praise Briggs (but everyone beware of the false prophets like David Keirsey)."
    Lmfao.
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  7. #17
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    @johnnyyukon

    Here's the article that I was thinking of when I wrote the OP. (I've seen tons of other articles like this before, but I'm not sure where I found them.)

    Why the Myers-Briggs test is totally meaningless

    The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator is probably the most widely used personality test in the world.

    An estimated 2 million people take it annually, at the behest of corporate HR departments, colleges, and even government agencies. The company that makes and markets the test makes somewhere around $20 million each year.

    The only problem? The test is completely meaningless.

    "There's just no evidence behind it," says Adam Grant, an organizational psychologist at the University of Pennsylvania who's written about the shortcomings of the Myers-Briggs previously. "The characteristics measured by the test have almost no predictive power on how happy you'll be in a situation, how you'll perform at your job, or how happy you'll be in your marriage."

    The test claims that, based on 93 questions, it can group all the people of the world into 16 different discrete "types" — and in doing so, serve as "a powerful framework for building better relationships, driving positive change, harnessing innovation, and achieving excellence." Most of the faithful think of it primarily as a tool for telling you your proper career choice.

    But the test was developed in the 1940s based off the untested theories of an outdated analytical psychologist named Carl Jung, and is now thoroughly disregarded by the psychology community. Even Jung warned that his personality "types" were just rough tendencies he'd observed, rather than strict classifications. Several analyses have shown the test is totally ineffective at predicting people's success in various jobs, and that about half of the people who take it twice get different results each time.
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  8. #18
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    I dunno, as it was taught to me, in engineering undergrad, was as a way to understand different team members and maybe some of the ways we communicate and problem-solve in somewhat different ways. But we were all engineers, and they never said "these types are good for engineering, these types arent" - they may have said some were more common in engineering, but never with a value judgement.

    So I guess it's not ALWAYS used the way you describe in the OP...
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  9. #19
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I dunno, as it was taught to me, in engineering undergrad, was as a way to understand different team members and maybe some of the ways we communicate and problem-solve in somewhat different ways. But we were all engineers, and they never said "these types are good for engineering, these types arent" - they may have said some were more common in engineering, but never with a value judgement.

    So I guess it's not ALWAYS used the way you describe in the OP...
    Leave it to the engineers to approach the subject with an objective view of its strengths and weaknesses. If only that were the norm!
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  10. #20
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Leave it to the engineers to approach the subject with an objective view of its strengths and weaknesses. If only that were the norm!
    One time I was reading a description for ENFPs and it said a recommended job for them is engineering and I just thought about my engineer ISTJ father and I was like...what is your damage myers-briggs?
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