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  1. #1
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    Default Subjective/Objective Input Differences Across Types <split>

    Split from Mistyped MBTIc Members.

    Nocapszy, why do you think F functions are linked to emotions?

    I double checked many function descriptions and F is in no way linked to emotions (except by a few descriptions dealing with the symptoms, not the disease). It is linked to being able to decipher emotions, but that's because it deals with tones, images, feelings etc. Which help in noticing emotions in yourself and others. However, T functions can do the same thing, they just need more skill and experience to pull it off with objective reasoning. Whereas subjective reasoning (feeling) is much better at dealing with subjective things like emotions without much prior experience.

    I know non-J functions can affect what trigger certain emotions and J functions can do the same indirectly (by affecting your emotional development), but that seems to be the only link that can be made. An F or a T can both value emotions, as they are both J functions, and any value judgement made on emotion has nothing to do with F functions. F functions are just better at reasoning with that kind of stuff.

    The same can be said with T and logic. T functions only seem more logical because it is easy to express objective reasoning objectively. F functions have a hard time expressing themselves objectively, so it's more difficult to see the logic in them.

    I always thought of it as:-

    Te-objectively processing objective input.
    Ti-subjectively processing objective input.
    Fe-objectively processing subjective input.
    Fi-subjectively processing subjective input.

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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    I always thought of it as:-

    Te-objectively processing objective input.
    Ti-subjectively processing objective input.
    Fe-objectively processing subjective input.
    Fi-subjectively processing subjective input.
    Thank you
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    Now that we have that figured out, let's work more nuance into this... because I think the topic deserves it.

    True, F is not "feelings or emotions."

    However, emotions are often tied into our values. We have an emotional or visceral reaction to something -- and that "something," we realize, embodies a value. The emotional response in part helps us determine what values we hold; it's how we recognize them.

    T responses don't really use emotions to validate them. The validation is inherent in the thinking process, which operates with or without emotion. (In fact, emotion often derails the thinking process.)

    I think this is why emotions often get attached to F values, in the conventional wisdom. It's because emotions are one of the triggers used to detect and denote a value, while emotions aren't a necessary trigger for the existence and validity of detached logic.

    So I don't think it is realistic to say emotions and F values are not in any way related. I do agree with emotions are not EQUAL to F values at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Te-objectively processing objective input.
    Ti-subjectively processing objective input.
    Fe-objectively processing subjective input.
    Fi-subjectively processing subjective input.
    Exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So I don't think it is realistic to say emotions and F values are not in any way related. I do agree with emotions are not EQUAL to F values at all.
    Good point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Now that we have that figured out, let's work more nuance into this... because I think the topic deserves it.

    True, F is not "feelings or emotions."

    However, emotions are often tied into our values. We have an emotional or visceral reaction to something -- and that "something," we realize, embodies a value. The emotional response in part helps us determine what values we hold; it's how we recognize them.

    T responses don't really use emotions to validate them. The validation is inherent in the thinking process, which operates with or without emotion. (In fact, emotion often derails the thinking process.)

    I think this is why emotions often get attached to F values, in the conventional wisdom. It's because emotions are one of the triggers used to detect and denote a value, while emotions aren't a necessary trigger for the existence and validity of detached logic.

    So I don't think it is realistic to say emotions and F values are not in any way related. I do agree with emotions are not EQUAL to F values at all.
    The validation process of thinking is often inherent in logic, which it works around the most. The logic isn't part of the T functions, the emotions not part the F functions, logic and emotions are both involuntary and outside of the psyche (essentially).

    F functions focus on emotions more because they specialize in dealing with subjective input, however, this does not change the emotional input you receive. If someone is expressing emotion, it means that they are experiencing emotions at a certain strength in a certain enviroment, how they deal with it is when F and T functions step in. F's analyze it one way, T's another.

    I also think that emotions disrupt the feeling process as well. If I'm sitting down analyzing my own feelings (different from emotions) when a wave of anger passes by, I get distracted. Emotions end up triggering irrational responses, regardless of T or F functions. When you are in an irrational state you can't use the four rational functions as effectively. The stronger the emotion, the less you can "think" with T or F functions.

    So yea, there is definatly a correlation between F functions and emotions, but it has nothing to do with the actual emotions themselves, just how you react to them. Even how you react to them is split just as much between the other functions as the J ones. Those non-J functions actually affect what emotions you feel as well (an E becoming irritated at a long period of being alone), whereas being an F or T does not, in anyway, affect how you feel about a baby seal being beaten! (okay it will, as anything does, have an indirect effect)

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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Te-objectively processing objective input.
    Ti-subjectively processing objective input.
    Fe-objectively processing subjective input.
    Fi-subjectively processing subjective input.
    WTF?!?!?!?

    Everyone is subjectively processing objective input, EVERYONE!!!



    *throughly confused*
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    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    WTF?!?!?!?

    Everyone is subjectively processing objective input, EVERYONE!!!



    *throughly confused*
    I know what you mean, but there's still a difference between being subjective about evaluations and being objective. When you're objective, you're less interested in how you relate to the object of analysis, compared to when you're subjectively analyzing. A judge, for instance, would be more impartial and objective, while a defendant would be subjective. It's true that even the judge or scientist is looking to see how his ideas relate to the object of analysis, but it's a different quality than someone who reacts subjectively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I know what you mean, but there's still a difference between being subjective about evaluations and being objective. When you're objective, you're less interested in how you relate to the object of analysis, compared to when you're subjectively analyzing. A judge, for instance, would be more impartial and objective, while a defendant would be subjective. It's true that even the judge or scientist is looking to see how his ideas relate to the object of analysis, but it's a different quality than someone who reacts subjectively.
    Sure, sure, understand that, will let that slide.

    But, um, isn't all *input* necessarily objective?
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    I always thought of it as:-

    Te-objectively processing objective input.
    Ti-subjectively processing objective input.
    Fe-objectively processing subjective input.
    Fi-subjectively processing subjective input.
    Great way of putting it!

    So I could extend that to the perceiving functions as:

    Se objectively perceiving objective input
    Si subjectively perceiving objective input
    Ne objectively perceiving subjective input
    Ni subjectively perceiving subjective input

    We may not think of everyone as being "objective" or "subjective", but as descriptors of the functions, every does use them, and remember, they all fall into an order, so for that reason, some people will be more or less subjective or objective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    The validation process of thinking is often inherent in logic, which it works around the most. The logic isn't part of the T functions, the emotions not part the F functions, logic and emotions are both involuntary and outside of the psyche (essentially).

    F functions focus on emotions more because they specialize in dealing with subjective input, however, this does not change the emotional input you receive. If someone is expressing emotion, it means that they are experiencing emotions at a certain strength in a certain enviroment, how they deal with it is when F and T functions step in. F's analyze it one way, T's another.

    I also think that emotions disrupt the feeling process as well. If I'm sitting down analyzing my own feelings (different from emotions) when a wave of anger passes by, I get distracted. Emotions end up triggering irrational responses, regardless of T or F functions. When you are in an irrational state you can't use the four rational functions as effectively. The stronger the emotion, the less you can "think" with T or F functions.

    So yea, there is definatly a correlation between F functions and emotions, but it has nothing to do with the actual emotions themselves, just how you react to them. Even how you react to them is split just as much between the other functions as the J ones. Those non-J functions actually affect what emotions you feel as well (an E becoming irritated at a long period of being alone), whereas being an F or T does not, in anyway, affect how you feel about a baby seal being beaten! (okay it will, as anything does, have an indirect effect)
    I think Jennifer was saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the feeling functions are related to emotion because of values. The feeling function evaluates its input in terms of values. Values *are* values precisely because of the emotion that they produce. Therefore the feeling function is permanently related to emotion even though it is not responsible for raw emotion.
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