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Thread: ENTJ vs ESTJ

  1. #21
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanaBanana View Post
    Those infos are indeed better than the ones I hace found. Thanks! Definitely gives me some food for thought. I still have no idea which one am I though.
    No problem.
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  2. #22
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Same Interaction Style (In Charge or Choleric; expressive and directive or task focused), so will appear similar on the surface level (how one approaches others in interaction).

    Classic temperament combos:
    Temperament and Personality

    ENTJ: Pure Choleric —totally aggressive and task focused, with Ni's visions
    ESTJ: ChlorMel —Just as task focused, but the Melancholy's reservedness comes out through Si's need for factual data
    ESTP: ChlorSan —Just as aggressive, but the Sanguine's oppenness (from Se) makes him a bit less focused on rules and procedures.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    ^ This is good. Let's just get rid of the idea that ESTJs can't be reformers, because they can be, and very often are. They just aren't likely to want to overhaul an entire system when it doesn't need to be overhauled (as you said, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"). Too much effort for too little payoff. ESTJs and ENTJs are both all about efficiency, but ESTJs are the ones who are very focused on -- and very good at -- maintaining a balance between efficiency and practicality. The question with ESTJs isn't "How should things be?", but is instead "How should things be, that is actually feasible?"


    I don't like these descriptions at all, because ESTJs aren't really in the moment. The ones who make decisions primarily in the now -- as in RIGHT NOW -- are ESxPs. ESTJs think more about the immediate future (how things should be feasibly changed), as well as the past (Si, their go-to for how things should be done).

    I posted about ESTJ vs ENTJ elsewhere -- let me try to find the post and drop it off here.
    I've been thinking about starting a blog and creating my own type descriptions/profiles wherein I would seek to strike a healthy balance between the profiles which are gross stereotypes (i.e. over half of the descriptions online and Keirsey's profiles) and profiles which go really deep into the functions. I would still approach it in a way that discussed the cognitive functions, but I would want to make it more digestible for people with a casual interest in typology, i.e. my wife, who gets a really glazed look in her eyes when I talk too much about the functions.

    I'd also like to include subtype information from socionics and discuss visual typing a bit.

  4. #24
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    I've been thinking about starting a blog and creating my own type descriptions/profiles wherein I would seek to strike a healthy balance between the profiles which are gross stereotypes (i.e. over half of the descriptions online and Keirsey's profiles) and profiles which go really deep into the functions. I would still approach it in a way that discussed the cognitive functions, but I would want to make it more digestible for people with a casual interest in typology, i.e. my wife, who gets a really glazed look in her eyes when I talk too much about the functions.

    I'd also like to include subtype information from socionics and discuss visual typing a bit.
    You should feel free to post profiles here. We have a couple of sections on it.

    MBTI/JCF Type Profiles

    Enneagram Type Profiles

    I expect us to be putting up a Wiki shortly.

    I know what you mean about the eyes glazing over lol. I think that's what initially partially motivated me to come here .

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  5. #25
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I expect us to be putting up a Wiki shortly.
    Cool! Can't wait to see what that comes out like!
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    You should feel free to post profiles here. We have a couple of sections on it.
    Will do!

  7. #27
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Same Interaction Style (In Charge or Choleric; expressive and directive or task focused), so will appear similar on the surface level (how one approaches others in interaction).

    Classic temperament combos:
    Temperament and Personality

    ENTJ: Pure Choleric —totally aggressive and task focused, with Ni's visions
    ESTJ: ChlorMel —Just as task focused, but the Melancholy's reservedness comes out through Si's need for factual data
    ESTP: ChlorSan —Just as aggressive, but the Sanguine's oppenness (from Se) makes him a bit less focused on rules and procedures.
    Interesting.
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  8. #28
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    Both types have a lot in common, as they share decision making functions, but that's a topic for another thread. This is my understanding of the differences between the two:

    ESTJs are practical, highly competent and the ideal employee for the majority of companies. When they're being brutally honest and bossy and hurting people's feelings, they may well notice thanks to their strong sensing side, and back off. Their Te-Si makes them extremely talented at creating highly efficient and highly practical systems based on their experience, and their Ne causes them to frequently break from the norm to attempt new ideas. Their main weakness is a lack of timing and foresight and frequently jumping into things without considering the long term consequences. Bright ESTJs make exceptional accountants, and they're often in all levels of management.

    ENTJs are innovative, strategic and forceful. They have great foresight, and generally know when they do not need to act. An ENTJ is likely to get carried away in a forceful show of Se, and to hurt people through it without being fully aware of the damage they're doing. However, thanks to Ni, they'll often reflect on this later and look at it from different perspectives, inevitably realising their fault and learning from it. ENTJs are also great at evaluating the strengths and weaknesses of others, making them great at people management. Ni makes an ENTJ quite laid back, but Se drives them to be forceful, making them quite capable of a sudden complete personality turnaround.

  9. #29
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annihilation View Post
    Both types have a lot in common, as they share decision making functions, but that's a topic for another thread. This is my understanding of the differences between the two:

    ESTJs are practical, highly competent and the ideal employee for the majority of companies. When they're being brutally honest and bossy and hurting people's feelings, they may well notice thanks to their strong sensing side, and back off. Their Te-Si makes them extremely talented at creating highly efficient and highly practical systems based on their experience, and their Ne causes them to frequently break from the norm to attempt new ideas. Their main weakness is a lack of timing and foresight and frequently jumping into things without considering the long term consequences. Bright ESTJs make exceptional accountants, and they're often in all levels of management.

    ENTJs are innovative, strategic and forceful. They have great foresight, and generally know when they do not need to act. An ENTJ is likely to get carried away in a forceful show of Se, and to hurt people through it without being fully aware of the damage they're doing. However, thanks to Ni, they'll often reflect on this later and look at it from different perspectives, inevitably realising their fault and learning from it. ENTJs are also great at evaluating the strengths and weaknesses of others, making them great at people management. Ni makes an ENTJ quite laid back, but Se drives them to be forceful, making them quite capable of a sudden complete personality turnaround.
    I see.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
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    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  10. #30
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meowington View Post
    Yeah, at least I hope so

    I know other ESTJs, who are far less dominant than my boss.
    Or ESTJs who are indeed more social. One is a sales guy, who is so socially cunny, he could trick you into thinking he's an F.
    In all honesty I generally do not like ESTJs. I distrust their Te (at first glance, I think they are superficial and/or judgemental), they distrust my Ni (they think I'm schemy/devious or insincere).

    PS. What's so bad about the descriptions LanaBanana mentioned ?
    Actually lana's one was quite good.

    Taking functions into consideration and from what i have noticed estjs, since have tert Ne are usually big pic people. They approach to accomplish this big pic by putting in daily habitual work. And since they have secondary Si they can form habits to accomplish their goals. This is their strengh: Have a goal in mind and putting effort day in day out till they accomplish this, and the best part is they aren't bored by it because Si goes hand in hand with routine. They will use Te to make decisions (which are Te of course).

    Entjs are different because their tert is Se. Se wants immediate results. Therefore they might get bored repeating things over and over. However their secondary is Ni which has big piture in mind. However their efforts will be more grand/creative and less phisically grounded than Si and will have to depend on Te to keep on track.
    .

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