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Vent and Crazy Talk About MBTI Stereotypes.

Mal12345

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When I first arrived on this forum, it was explained to me that there are a few things not allowed here. These things aren't against the FAQ per se, it seemed that a certain conformity to some unstated tribal rule was expected of me. For example, I was not to:

1. discuss how typology suffers from the ad hoc fallacy;
2. engage in stereotyping; and,
3. write at great length intellectually (an INTP stereotype! It's so IRONIC).

I had no problem with (1). Typology - LIKE ANYTHING ELSE INTELLECTUAL - can use ad hoc argumentation. But typology is not ad hoc by its very nature. It depends on whether the reasoning that goes into a type-call occurs 'before-the-fact' or 'after-the-fact.'

2. What constitutes stereotyping is determined on this forum in a subjective and/or dogmatic sense. Something is a stereotype according to how some members feel about a statement. If it feels like stereotyping, then it must be stereotyping!

The idea of stereotyping is also used to push dogma, in the sense that - IF YOU USE MBTI IN THE ABSENCE OF FUNCTIONS, THEN YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY ENGAGED IN STEREOTYPING! "Therefore," JCF is (morally and politically) correct and everything else is incorrect, maybe evil.

Those who believe this, and who try to convince others of their dogma, never give an idea of what 'stereotype' means, or how it is applied to typology. The dogma depends on some vague notion of what stereotyping consists of. They 'know' what a stereotype is by certain infamous examples regarding classes of people - racism, homophobia, etc., including typism. I agree that typism exists, and I have been viciously subjected to it by certain forum members who shall remain unnamed. But to state that non-JCF always engages in stereotyping by its nature is insane, as is the implied idea that using JCF somehow cures the problem of typism.

Since each type in a system counts as a class of people, it will be subject to typism and stereotyping. The only solution, therefore, to typism would be to do as the PC crowd does - eliminate all labels. ALL OF THEM, whether they come from pure MBTI or that recent reinvention of MBTI known as JCF.
 

yeghor

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When I first arrived on this forum, it was explained to me that there are a few things not allowed here. These things aren't against the FAQ per se, it seemed that a certain conformity to some unstated tribal rule was expected of me. For example, I was not to:

1. discuss how typology suffers from the ad hoc fallacy;
2. engage in stereotyping; and,
3. write at great length intellectually (an INTP stereotype! It's so IRONIC).

I had no problem with (1). Typology - LIKE ANYTHING ELSE INTELLECTUAL - can use ad hoc argumentation. But typology is not ad hoc by its very nature. It depends on whether the reasoning that goes into a type-call occurs 'before-the-fact' or 'after-the-fact.'

2. What constitutes stereotyping is determined on this forum in a subjective and/or dogmatic sense. Something is a stereotype according to how some members feel about a statement. If it feels like stereotyping, then it must be stereotyping!

The idea of stereotyping is also used to push dogma, in the sense that - IF YOU USE MBTI IN THE ABSENCE OF FUNCTIONS, THEN YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY ENGAGED IN STEREOTYPING! "Therefore," JCF is (morally and politically) correct and everything else is incorrect, maybe evil.

Those who believe this, and who try to convince others of their dogma, never give an idea of what 'stereotype' means, or how it is applied to typology. The dogma depends on some vague notion of what stereotyping consists of. They 'know' what a stereotype is by certain infamous examples regarding classes of people - racism, homophobia, etc., including typism. I agree that typism exists, and I have been viciously subjected to it by certain forum members who shall remain unnamed. But to state that non-JCF always engages in stereotyping by its nature is insane, as is the implied idea that using JCF somehow cures the problem of typism.

Since each type in a system counts as a class of people, it will be subject to typism and stereotyping. The only solution, therefore, to typism would be to do as the PC crowd does - eliminate all labels. ALL OF THEM, whether they come from pure MBTI or that recent reinvention of MBTI known as JCF.

Typism is generalizing and associating negative behaviour to certain MBTI types, I guess, like calling all blondes or ESFxs stupid or somethingç
 

Mal12345

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Typism is generalizing and associating negative behaviour to certain MBTI types, I guess, like calling all blondes or ESFxs stupid or somethingç

I agree, as far as negative stereotypes are concerned. But do you have a real-life example of typism?
 

yeghor

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I agree, as far as negative stereotypes are concerned. But do you have a real-life example of typism?
Don't know, it would require that person to flaunt his/her type first before I can diss him/her based on type.
 

Jaguar

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Stereotype: a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing. (The definition is not difficult to understand.)

"Enneagram 8s are spouse-beaters."

Then surely O.J. Simpson is an 8. And Mike Tyson. And, and, and, and . . .

Yes, I know it's an MBTI thread, but you get the point.
 

Coriolis

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I agree, as far as negative stereotypes are concerned. But do you have a real-life example of typism?
It is just as much stereotyping when one generalizes about positive qualities: e.g. INTJs are all intelligent and good at math and science; INFJs are psychic; SPs of all kinds are good athletes, etc.
 

Mal12345

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It is just as much stereotyping when one generalizes about positive qualities: e.g. INTJs are all intelligent and good at math and science; INFJs are psychic; SPs of all kinds are good athletes, etc.

I've never heard that one about SPs. But what's wrong with positive generalizing? At least it's positive.
 

Mal12345

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Stereotype: a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing. (The definition is not difficult to understand.)

"Enneagram 8s are spouse-beaters."

Then surely O.J. Simpson is an 8. And Mike Tyson. And, and, and, and . . .

And Jaguar?

J/k!
 

Jaguar

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And Jaguar?

J/k!

Actually, you're not kidding. And we both know it.

In my entire life I've punched one person in the face, and they hit the ground in seconds - someone who aided in the kidnapping of a child. I have no regrets. And since you engage in that bizarre activity of typing people by appearance, I don't have a bulky body like O.J. or Tyson. Not even close. I have a tennis player body and, yes, I was on the tennis team in school.

Btw, work on your typing "skills". They blow.
 

Mal12345

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Actually, you're not kidding. And we both know it.

In my entire life I've punched one person in the face, and they hit the ground in seconds - someone who aided in the kidnapping of a child. I have no regrets. And since you engage in that bizarre activity of typing people by appearance, I don't have a bulky body like O.J. or Tyson. Not even close. I have a tennis player body and, yes, I was on the tennis team in school.

Btw, work on your typing "skills". They blow.

The typing by appearance is a Socionics experiment.

Why do you think I always have to believe in what I'm doing? I don't "believe in" until it's been proven through experiment and experience. I don't automatically reject an idea just because it doesn't conform with my pre-existing beliefs, unless it is completely unfounded. I play with ideas I don't necessarily believe.

VI is just a theory. Parts of it seem more valid than others. Long vs round faces, wide vs narrow eyes, "Einstein" hair - these things MAY be indicative of type.
 

Jaguar

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Why do you think I always have to believe in what I'm doing? I don't "believe in" until it's been proven through experiment and experience. I don't automatically reject an idea just because it doesn't conform with my pre-existing beliefs, unless it is completely unfounded.

Experiment and experience? Upon joining the forum you quickly used the "logic": My boss is a meanie and ruined my life, he's ESTJ. Jaguar reminds me of my boss, ergo, Jaguar is ESTJ. Experiment and experience? Hardly. You probably would have typed a former member named Jack Flak ESTJ considering the logic you employ. No doubt, he would have blasted you with both barrels for many of your posts, with cause. And for the record, one of the few times I backed Marm was when she got on your case for stereotyping. This is a thread on stereotyping after all, eh? Speaking of ESTJs, and stereotyping, elsewhere in the forum someone got on EJCC's ass claiming she couldn't possibly be ESTJ since she wasn't "out there doing" and instead was here participating in the forum. I've read stereotyped nonsense for years, but that person deserves a prize. I believe EJCC was labeled "a confused ENTJ." Meaning, she had to be ENTJ rather than ESTJ simply for being here and not "out there doing."

Brilliant solution: Rather than realize one's thought process may be flawed, simply maintain the person in question is another MBTI type in order to hang on to that flawed thought process.

I can't help but wonder what that person would say to an ESTJ pal of mine who is a retired psychologist. "He can't be ESTJ, he's a psychologist! Type him something else!"
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Experiment and experience? Upon joining the forum you quickly used the "logic": My boss is a meanie and ruined my life, he's ESTJ. Jaguar reminds me of my boss, ergo, Jaguar is ESTJ. Experiment and experience? Hardly. You probably would have typed a former member named Jack Flak ESTJ considering the logic you employ. No doubt, he would have blasted you with both barrels for many of your posts, with cause. And for the record, one of the few times I backed Marm was when she got on your case for stereotyping. This is a thread on stereotyping after all, eh? Speaking of ESTJs, and stereotyping, elsewhere in the forum someone got on EJCC's ass claiming she couldn't possibly be ESTJ since she wasn't "out there doing" and instead was here participating in the forum. I've read stereotyped nonsense for years, but that person deserves a prize. I believe EJCC was labeled "a confused ENTJ." Meaning, she had to be ENTJ rather than ESTJ simply for being here and not "out there doing."

Brilliant solution: Rather than realize one's thought process may be flawed, simply maintain the person in question is another MBTI type in order to hang on to that flawed thought process.

I can't help but wonder what that person would say to an ESTJ pal of mine who is a retired psychologist. "He can't be ESTJ, he's a psychologist! Type him something else!"

I think that many ESTJs could make excellent psychologists.
 

Jaguar

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I think that many ESTJs could make excellent psychologists.

Agreed.

I think anyone could be a psychologist.
I think anyone could be a novelist.
I think anyone could be a doctor.
I think anyone could run a business.

In my opinion, it's the how that may differ. Not the what.
 

Mal12345

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Agreed.

I think anyone could be a psychologist.
I think anyone could be a novelist.
I think anyone could be a doctor.
I think anyone could run a business.

In my opinion, it's the how that may differ. Not the what.

I don't believe that ANYONE can run a business or be a doctor, anymore than I could be a basketball player or a coal miner.

However, people of all types can be found in all walks of life. You may find INTPs as basketball players and coal miners. But that INTP won't be me.

As for the rest of your post above, they are all unfounded accusations. And Marm is the biggest stereotyper on this forum, so your statements are hypocritical. They are also biased since, as Marm is indeed the biggest stereotyper who comes to this forum, you never said one word to her about it.
 

Jaguar

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I don't believe that ANYONE can run a business or be a doctor, anymore than I could be a basketball player or a coal miner.

Limit possibilities. Always. That's the ticket.

As for the rest of your post above, they are all unfounded accusations. And Marm is the biggest stereotyper on this forum, so your statements are hypocritical. They are also biased since, as Marm is indeed the biggest stereotyper who comes to this forum, you never said one word to her about it.

Hardly unfounded. Btw, it's been awhile . . . I think it's time for you to go post about your boss ruining your life, again. Make no mistake, the only person who can ruin your life is you. If you don't like working for the fucker, walk. As for Marm, ironically, she began a run of type-stalking after she was type-stalked by someone else. Odd, but true. Having said that, it doesn't mean you weren't stereotyping in all the threads where she was yelling at you over the years. And I have given Marm plenty of shit for some of her comments over the years.

As for this thread, frankly, I don't understand why you'd start a thread about stereotyping when so many of your posts have contained stereotyping. That's bizarre. But it's a free world, so knock yourself out.
 

Mal12345

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Limit possibilities. Always. That's the ticket.

Once again, you think I have an agenda, but I don't. That's called "projection."


Hardly unfounded. Btw, it's been awhile . . . I think it's time for you to go post about your boss ruining your life, again. Make no mistake, the only person who can ruin your life is you. If you don't like working for the fucker, walk. As for Marm, ironically, she began a run of type-stalking after she was type-stalked by someone else. Odd, but true. Having said that, it doesn't mean you weren't stereotyping in all the threads where she was yelling at you over the years. And I have given Marm plenty of shit for some of her comments over the years.

As for this thread, frankly, I don't understand why you'd start a thread about stereotyping when so many of your posts have contained stereotyping. That's bizarre. But it's a free world, so knock yourself out.

I haven't worked for that boss since 2012.

My posts don't contain stereotyping.
 

Jaguar

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Once again, you think I have an agenda, but I don't. That's called "projection."

Ah, yes. The ever-popular "You're projecting!" battle cry when hobbling along on a wounded leg in a forum discussion.
I don't think you have an agenda, I simply think many of your so-called "typing" posts are stereotypical drivel.
 

Mal12345

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Ah, yes. The ever-popular "You're projecting!" battle cry when hobbling along on a wounded leg in a forum discussion.
I don't think you have an agenda, I simply think many of your so-called "typing" posts are stereotypical drivel.

You're right, as always ! :)
 
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