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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Default Vent and Crazy Talk About MBTI Stereotypes.

    When I first arrived on this forum, it was explained to me that there are a few things not allowed here. These things aren't against the FAQ per se, it seemed that a certain conformity to some unstated tribal rule was expected of me. For example, I was not to:

    1. discuss how typology suffers from the ad hoc fallacy;
    2. engage in stereotyping; and,
    3. write at great length intellectually (an INTP stereotype! It's so IRONIC).

    I had no problem with (1). Typology - LIKE ANYTHING ELSE INTELLECTUAL - can use ad hoc argumentation. But typology is not ad hoc by its very nature. It depends on whether the reasoning that goes into a type-call occurs 'before-the-fact' or 'after-the-fact.'

    2. What constitutes stereotyping is determined on this forum in a subjective and/or dogmatic sense. Something is a stereotype according to how some members feel about a statement. If it feels like stereotyping, then it must be stereotyping!

    The idea of stereotyping is also used to push dogma, in the sense that - IF YOU USE MBTI IN THE ABSENCE OF FUNCTIONS, THEN YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY ENGAGED IN STEREOTYPING! "Therefore," JCF is (morally and politically) correct and everything else is incorrect, maybe evil.

    Those who believe this, and who try to convince others of their dogma, never give an idea of what 'stereotype' means, or how it is applied to typology. The dogma depends on some vague notion of what stereotyping consists of. They 'know' what a stereotype is by certain infamous examples regarding classes of people - racism, homophobia, etc., including typism. I agree that typism exists, and I have been viciously subjected to it by certain forum members who shall remain unnamed. But to state that non-JCF always engages in stereotyping by its nature is insane, as is the implied idea that using JCF somehow cures the problem of typism.

    Since each type in a system counts as a class of people, it will be subject to typism and stereotyping. The only solution, therefore, to typism would be to do as the PC crowd does - eliminate all labels. ALL OF THEM, whether they come from pure MBTI or that recent reinvention of MBTI known as JCF.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #2
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    When I first arrived on this forum, it was explained to me that there are a few things not allowed here. These things aren't against the FAQ per se, it seemed that a certain conformity to some unstated tribal rule was expected of me. For example, I was not to:

    1. discuss how typology suffers from the ad hoc fallacy;
    2. engage in stereotyping; and,
    3. write at great length intellectually (an INTP stereotype! It's so IRONIC).

    I had no problem with (1). Typology - LIKE ANYTHING ELSE INTELLECTUAL - can use ad hoc argumentation. But typology is not ad hoc by its very nature. It depends on whether the reasoning that goes into a type-call occurs 'before-the-fact' or 'after-the-fact.'

    2. What constitutes stereotyping is determined on this forum in a subjective and/or dogmatic sense. Something is a stereotype according to how some members feel about a statement. If it feels like stereotyping, then it must be stereotyping!

    The idea of stereotyping is also used to push dogma, in the sense that - IF YOU USE MBTI IN THE ABSENCE OF FUNCTIONS, THEN YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY ENGAGED IN STEREOTYPING! "Therefore," JCF is (morally and politically) correct and everything else is incorrect, maybe evil.

    Those who believe this, and who try to convince others of their dogma, never give an idea of what 'stereotype' means, or how it is applied to typology. The dogma depends on some vague notion of what stereotyping consists of. They 'know' what a stereotype is by certain infamous examples regarding classes of people - racism, homophobia, etc., including typism. I agree that typism exists, and I have been viciously subjected to it by certain forum members who shall remain unnamed. But to state that non-JCF always engages in stereotyping by its nature is insane, as is the implied idea that using JCF somehow cures the problem of typism.

    Since each type in a system counts as a class of people, it will be subject to typism and stereotyping. The only solution, therefore, to typism would be to do as the PC crowd does - eliminate all labels. ALL OF THEM, whether they come from pure MBTI or that recent reinvention of MBTI known as JCF.
    Typism is generalizing and associating negative behaviour to certain MBTI types, I guess, like calling all blondes or ESFxs stupid or somethingç

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Typism is generalizing and associating negative behaviour to certain MBTI types, I guess, like calling all blondes or ESFxs stupid or somethingç
    I agree, as far as negative stereotypes are concerned. But do you have a real-life example of typism?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #4
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    I agree, as far as negative stereotypes are concerned. But do you have a real-life example of typism?
    Don't know, it would require that person to flaunt his/her type first before I can diss him/her based on type.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Stereotype: a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing. (The definition is not difficult to understand.)

    "Enneagram 8s are spouse-beaters."

    Then surely O.J. Simpson is an 8. And Mike Tyson. And, and, and, and . . .

    Yes, I know it's an MBTI thread, but you get the point.

  6. #6
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    I agree, as far as negative stereotypes are concerned. But do you have a real-life example of typism?
    It is just as much stereotyping when one generalizes about positive qualities: e.g. INTJs are all intelligent and good at math and science; INFJs are psychic; SPs of all kinds are good athletes, etc.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    It is just as much stereotyping when one generalizes about positive qualities: e.g. INTJs are all intelligent and good at math and science; INFJs are psychic; SPs of all kinds are good athletes, etc.
    I've never heard that one about SPs. But what's wrong with positive generalizing? At least it's positive.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #8
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Stereotype: a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing. (The definition is not difficult to understand.)

    "Enneagram 8s are spouse-beaters."

    Then surely O.J. Simpson is an 8. And Mike Tyson. And, and, and, and . . .
    And Jaguar?

    J/k!
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #9
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    And Jaguar?

    J/k!
    Actually, you're not kidding. And we both know it.

    In my entire life I've punched one person in the face, and they hit the ground in seconds - someone who aided in the kidnapping of a child. I have no regrets. And since you engage in that bizarre activity of typing people by appearance, I don't have a bulky body like O.J. or Tyson. Not even close. I have a tennis player body and, yes, I was on the tennis team in school.

    Btw, work on your typing "skills". They blow.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Actually, you're not kidding. And we both know it.

    In my entire life I've punched one person in the face, and they hit the ground in seconds - someone who aided in the kidnapping of a child. I have no regrets. And since you engage in that bizarre activity of typing people by appearance, I don't have a bulky body like O.J. or Tyson. Not even close. I have a tennis player body and, yes, I was on the tennis team in school.

    Btw, work on your typing "skills". They blow.
    The typing by appearance is a Socionics experiment.

    Why do you think I always have to believe in what I'm doing? I don't "believe in" until it's been proven through experiment and experience. I don't automatically reject an idea just because it doesn't conform with my pre-existing beliefs, unless it is completely unfounded. I play with ideas I don't necessarily believe.

    VI is just a theory. Parts of it seem more valid than others. Long vs round faces, wide vs narrow eyes, "Einstein" hair - these things MAY be indicative of type.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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