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  1. #31
    Member RiftsWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caw the rooks View Post
    Do you have difficulty with achieving satisfactory self-understanding without a categorizing system?

    Personally I know and understand myself via introspecting but cannot do so well with applying myself to an external system. I understand that many come to a typology such as MBTI so they can understand themselves better.

    So: would you have a difficult time with understanding yourself without a typological framework in which you can categorize your traits? Is it necessary to have this framework to quantify how you function, or is it mere interest that brought you to them?
    I always understood "what" I am, and my fears. But the game changer for me, when I first started with the Enneagram, was in finally putting a voice and words objectively to what I am.

    Effectively validating "I'm not crazy.. and I'm not alone". In that, I finally started to understand there are ways to back out of the doors I've walked into, and how to better myself... effectively giving me hope.
    ----------
    Jorge (RiftsWRX)
    www.ProjectWRX.com

    Enneagram: 2w3 - Sexual Variant
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  2. #32
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Yes, I had a hard time understanding myself without using MBTI. It isn't even because MBTI is necessarily useful, although I find it so. I just needed some sort of arbitrary starting point to start gathering data to, to make observations against.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by small.wonder View Post
    One more thought: I think where Enneagram has helped my understanding, is with others. I used to be so confused by the actions of others and the conflicts I would find myself in, knowing where that person is coming from has made worlds of difference.
    Ah yes. Understanding others has been the major benefit for me in my own case. Suddenly everything makes sense! On the other hand, it's also made me tolerant of things I maybe shouldn't be tolerant of. Mixed bag, I guess.

    Yeah, I don't think that's unusual (and this is exactly why I keep typology away from the high school kids I volunteer with). If theory has it right, most people who do that fall somewhere on the 3, 6, 9 spectrum. I know a handful of individuals who qualify and have talked with them about it, but I (obviously) believe other types can and do mistype as well. Hardcore reading is crucile, one of the common threads running through the people I've talked to is shallow (or no) reading. Seriously? Over-reading can land you in the same undecided spot though.
    Oh so much of this! Someone in a chat group was trying to tell me that because I said, "I'm certain I'm not type X", it therefore proved I was type X. He was all, "You have quality A more than quality B [as if one can deduce this in a chat forum]; therefore you have Y-wing". And it was all based on online internet descriptions and gossip! I was like, How can I carry on a conversation with someone so un-knowlegeable?? Then they start kicking around the lamest ideas as if they were gold...ugh, so much for continued self-development.

    As you say, it's also a good idea NOT to give this stuff to high school kids. Not only is their life- and self-experience limited, they're inclined to misuse it. "You're a weird artist so you're a 4!!" I got told this as a teen, which did wonders in making me reject the type from initial consideration.

    Right, and I hope you realize that's not what I intended or meant at all. I could never presume to know an individual better than they do themselves, but I have been shocked at the way people I know really well falsely see themselves. Example: My 2 Mom completely denied (at first) having pride issues or only doing things for others to get love back. After reading, she took it more seriously and agreed. I know others who are just really confused about who they are and what they feel. Most people tend to identify correctly if they are relatively emotionally healthy and after narrowing it down to a couple types, are given some time with the text (I've mostly used The Wisdom of The Enneagram). Most of the confused and or mistyped people I come across really have been 3, 6 or 9 though, which actually surprised me at first (I didn't really expect it to ring true). It does make sense in theory though.
    What you say about your mother doesn't surprise me, as this is supposedly a subconscious process for 2s--their defenses gear them toward believing in their own best intentions. No hidden agenda at all! I'm not surprised she dismissed that at first.

    I've heard the theory about the attachment types (haven't read it in any book, actually), but the 9s I've met have generally known what they were upon reading about it. This is, like, two of them, though. They were both older adults. Theoretically, these tend to be the types out of touch with some aspect of themselves, so it makes sense.

    Sometimes, though, there's "over knowledge" of ones' idiosyncracies, similar to "over-reading". And that's a whole nother can of worms.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caw the rooks View Post
    Do you have difficulty with achieving satisfactory self-understanding without a categorizing system?

    Personally I know and understand myself via introspecting but cannot do so well with applying myself to an external system. I understand that many come to a typology such as MBTI so they can understand themselves better.

    So: would you have a difficult time with understanding yourself without a typological framework in which you can categorize your traits? Is it necessary to have this framework to quantify how you function, or is it mere interest that brought you to them?
    Yes, I need a framework to categorize traits and quantify things. It's not entirely necessary to do any of this though. I'm just trying to see if it helps with some realizations about 1) myself 2) communication styles with certain other people.

    I'm not interested beyond these two objectives. I don't feel much need to put labels on people. Sometimes I engage with a few friends - who are interested in MBTI - in attempts to label ourselves but the label finding game is really just an excuse to examine ourselves deeper.

  5. #35
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Yes. But it helped me figure out I wasn't alone. Beyond that point, I'm not sure what utility it has. There's a mild danger of using it as an excuse to actually learn about other people, or to either avoid growing, or set along some artificial, ossified path. It's a good idea to not place too much importance on it.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    There's a mild danger of using it as an excuse to actually learn about other people
    Elaborate?

  7. #37
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    If course i do because there is enneagram.

    On a more serious note yes i do since i have my moments of introspection.

    I do so mostly when i am feeling down tho.
    .

  8. #38
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinite View Post
    Elaborate?
    It should be "there's a mild danger of using it as an excuse instead of actually learning about other people". Does that clarify things?

    If not... I can definitely explain further.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    It should be "there's a mild danger of using it as an excuse instead of actually learning about other people". Does that clarify things?

    If not... I can definitely explain further.
    hehh yes that clarifies :P

  10. #40
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    I think I understand myself way better without typology, but there is one major thing: Jung's Psychological Types helped me find my dual and partner, and continues to explain why we get along so well, and why we get along with other Ne-Si-Te-Fi-ers. It is continually useful and necessary for me to use to understand people, giving me discernment of family, friends, our similarities and differences in communication style. It does give me a more relative sense of self. I understand why with certain people we just don't get one other, while others seem very nice and interesting. I realized I'm usually very comfortable around people who use those four functions and I can branch social gaps I didn't think were possible before. Holland's Career Types helped me to better appreciate that I'm very artistic and creative compared to most people and gave me a lot of useful career options. Keirsey-MBTI is interesting in that I'm actually both a feeler and a thinker, MBTI in that I'm based on feeling more than logic, but Keirsey in that I'm based on thinking and analysis more than people and ethics, so in a way I understand my uniqueness in some new areas. These discoveries are all nice, and knowing some of these basic limits in each typology led me to accurate typing.

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