User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 50

  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Ergo would it not an ESFP be more the opposite of an INTP than an ESFJ would be? Shoudn't an ESFP and an INTP have more difficulty communicating and getting along?
    Theoretically, you're correct.
    Anecdotally, it would be interesting to hear people's experiences.

    I usually get along okay with ESFPs, because they're SO easy-going and fun. And I'm flexy. They might be Se, I might be Ne, but we still usually play nice together.

    Usually where things sour: I think they are being irresponsible or illogical and not following a path that meshes with their goals when it makes sense (they definitely don't easily connect cause with effect), while meanwhile they wish I would lighten up and not be so bound by thinking through everything and instead just need to leap into things more often. There's usually not a lot of depth for me either; they tend to focus on the positive and fun experiences (although they are willing to get all philosophical as part of their flitting around), I usually want something that goes a lot deeper and takes more focus.

    ESFJ and INTP share the same functions, they're just in the reverse order... so how much does order impact connection?

    We could also think about "faces" for a moment, or function pairs too.
    INTP = Ti + Ne AND then Si + Fe (= ISFJ)
    ESFJ = Fe + Si AND then Ne + Ti (= ENTP)

    In some ways, I think INTP and ISFJ connect a little better, and ESFJ and ENTP should connect a little better. Because the functions pair up better.

    Let's then look at inner face and outer face:

    INTP = Ti + Si (inner) and then Ne + Fe (outer)
    ESFJ = Fe + Ne (outer) and then Si + Ti (inner)
    ISFJ = Si + Ti (inner) and then Fe + Ne (outer)
    ESFJ = Ne + Fe (outer) and then Ti + Si (inner)

    Here again, note that even if the faces are all shared, the INTP and ISFJ rely on the inner face first usually (because they are introverted) and ENTP and ESFJ rely on the external first.

    Again, this is all theory. Hearing practical experience will help inform theory.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    ^^ Hi Flexy,

    Having had an ISFJ mother and a pal who's an ISFJ (also female... perhaps worth noting), it's not smooth running. I tend to grind up against their expectations where as they tear at my natural questioning of unsupported "authority" figures.

    I'm not saying it's wrong... just I don't see it in the relationships I'm thinking of.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    ^^ Hi Flexy,
    hmmm. If you want to flex me up.... well, it's working.

    Having had an ISFJ mother and a pal who's an ISFJ (also female... perhaps worth noting), it's not smooth running. I tend to grind up against their expectations where as they tear at my natural questioning of unsupported "authority" figures.
    From my personal experience, I do find them less flexible than ESFJ.
    But also more inclined to not say something, where ESFJ is much more apt to let me know about points of disagreement.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    xkcd
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INT_
    Posts
    10,733

    Default

    The reason our "opposite" is reversed functions (and also the exact four letter opposite) is because a shadow type has to have the same functions in order for us to use them under stress.

    The INTP under stress lets Fe reign rampant, because we actually use that function, but normally as the inferior one rather than our primary. We don't switch from TiNe to TeNi.

  5. #15
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    hmmm. If you want to flex me up.... well, it's working.
    Ahhh wanna fl...

    :steam: Hey no fair. I HATE that song!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    From my personal experience, I do find them less flexible than ESFJ.
    But also more inclined to not say something, where ESFJ is much more apt to let me know about points of disagreement.
    Personally I prefer to be hit with a two by four stating the problem than get sniped for transgressions I wasn't even aware were transgressions until I'd bled out!
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    The reason our "opposite" is reversed functions (and also the exact four letter opposite) is because a shadow type has to have the same functions in order for us to use them under stress.

    The INTP under stress lets Fe reign rampant, because we actually use that function, but normally as the inferior one rather than our primary. We don't switch from TiNe to TeNi.
    That's why I don't like the word 'opposite'. Opposite says to me that it should be as far away as possible... but it isn't. There are more points of integration between an ESFJ and an INTP than an INTP and an ESFP. Hence I'm using the word 'alien'... just to head off arguing
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #16
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    xkcd
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INT_
    Posts
    10,733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    That's why I don't like the word 'opposite'. Opposite says to me that it should be as far away as possible... but it isn't. There are more points of integration between an ESFJ and an INTP than an INTP and an ESFP. Hence I'm using the word 'alien'... just to head off arguing
    Opposite only makes sense if you are looking at the four letters. Shadow works much better.

  7. #17
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Opposite only makes sense if you are looking at the four letters. Shadow works much better.
    Okay you've lost me there. I thought that ESFJ was the shadow of INTP... and it's direct opposite (in terms of letters).

    Have I erred?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #18
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    xkcd
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INT_
    Posts
    10,733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Okay you've lost me there. I thought that ESFJ was the shadow of INTP... and it's direct opposite (in terms of letters).

    Have I erred?
    No, you're right. That's why I'd say use "shadow" for the type that doesn't share any letters. Then you can use "opposite" or "alien" for the type that doesn't share any functions.

  9. #19
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    No, you're right. That's why I'd say use "shadow" for the type that doesn't share any letters. Then you can use "opposite" or "alien" for the type that doesn't share any functions.
    Aha... I thought you were on the opposition... good plan. I wasn't sure about the whole "shadow" in precise definition but if a wizard says it's so then I'll buy that for a dollar.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #20
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Wow, to tell if there is an alien type is pretty tough. I have heard there are actually iNTj's, who are not depressed and I have heard there are actually iSfJ woman, who actually know they are taking things for granted to please the community and develpoed a fine sense of humor to undermine every step they take with sarcasm.

    I guess types that alienate me are mostly F-ish types. They dont make me angry, they make me feeling depressed, cause some of them can think they are the total goal getters and then even start to accuse you of lacking something they like and furthermore to compare themselves to others and sort all those out of does not match.

    That's kinda tough concerning the spelling, opposites attract.

    What alienates me aswell are people, who quit searching. That is being expressed in having an answer to everything. I think that discurs is very important to find answers. You can think about a problem for a long time on your own, but to grasp all the input, you definitly need discurs. And the other thing is depression. In my opionion there is no way to be depressed as long as you are alive. That does not mean, noone is allowed to be depressed anymore, I am depressed from time to time myself. But one should always reach the point, when one things, ok I had enough of depression .

    Well spoken easily, doing it is harder, I know.. xD
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

Similar Threads

  1. Changes in your MBTI and Enneagram types
    By animenagai in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: 01-22-2016, 11:45 PM
  2. If each of your functions had enneagram types
    By Elfboy in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 01-11-2015, 06:32 PM
  3. Replies: 42
    Last Post: 05-13-2010, 08:29 PM
  4. your opinion on my type?
    By yvonne in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-03-2010, 12:44 AM
  5. Your reactions to other types
    By stellar renegade in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 07-30-2009, 10:05 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO