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Thread: Ni vs Si

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    At least you can to some extent. I tend to only be able to give very vague, general descriptions of myself to other people, which frustrates me a lot. The best way to learn about me is indirectly by observing my behaviour, especially in an everyday sense.
    Oh. Do you never try to observe your mind by introspection?

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    Quote Originally Posted by infinite View Post
    Oh. Do you never try to observe your mind by introspection?
    I spend a lot of time quietly thinking, so yes, I am often disconnected from what's going on around me, and can drift off into my own elaborate inner world far too easily.

    But I tend not to think about myself, or my own issues, that often, I tend to more naturally think about impersonal things, unless prompted by someone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I spend a lot of time quietly thinking, so yes, I am often disconnected from what's going on around me, and can drift off into my own elaborate inner world far too easily.

    But I tend not to think about myself, or my own issues, that often, I tend to more naturally think about impersonal things, unless prompted by someone else.
    I didn't mean "yourself" or "issues", I meant your mind in a cognitive sense. Observing it and its workings as any other object's.

  4. #34
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    Ni is not as sentimental as Si.
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinite View Post
    I didn't mean "yourself" or "issues", I meant your mind in a cognitive sense. Observing it and its workings as any other object's.
    No, not really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    No, not really.
    That's interesting, I thought Ni-doms would be doing that? But then, it may not be type related.

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    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Si user reacts to subjective aspects of the sensations experienced, in other words what the sensation evokes in him. While Si is not some storehouse of sensations or facts, Si user usually has a good storehouse of information/facts/sensation because when using Si, he relates to this storehouse when abstracting sensations to subjective images.
    They also use extraverted intuition in combination of this subjective sensations and focuses on possibilities in the external world more than the concrete sensations.
    This is a pretty good description of how I relate to Si.

    Thinking about external vs. internal functions, I start with Se, which seems the most "obvious," and relate Si, Ne, and Ni to that concept. First, these are all perception functions and not judging functions, so these functions don't directly motivate action, they just create the person's understanding of the world. F and T will act on that information.

    Se is an external sensing function--"external" because the sensation is obvious/visible/understandable/evident to anyone, not just the person experiencing it. Contrast this with Si, which must be internal--taking information about the physical/tangible world in an "internal" manner, one that is not obvious/visible/understandable/evident to everyone, but only to the person experiencing it. What does that look like when it happens? Well, what is a "personal interpretation" of a physical/tangible event or thing? It is something like the impression of how that thing "feels." In some ways, of course, the impression is not like the actual thing, because it is your perception of the thing.

    If you've never encountered Thing X before, Si does not really know what to do with it. It is stumped unless it can compare to a somewhat similar thing. This is why SJs are described as being "uneasy with change." However, if you have encountered Thing X before, Si compares it to the "mental template" of it in your head. The "mental template" obviously comes from previous experiences, because you can't build one based on concrete experiences that haven't happened to you yet, so necessarily, the new situation is compared to "past data." Extrapolating from that comes all the SJ typical qualities of being comfortable with tradition, having a good memory, living in the past, etc. In my opinion, that's certainly a natural path to flow from the nature of Si to those qualities, but not the only path, and not for the reason most people think.

    Hope that made some sense...
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    This is a pretty good description of how I relate to Si.

    Thinking about external vs. internal functions, I start with Se, which seems the most "obvious," and relate Si, Ne, and Ni to that concept. First, these are all perception functions and not judging functions, so these functions don't directly motivate action, they just create the person's understanding of the world. F and T will act on that information.

    Se is an external sensing function--"external" because the sensation is obvious/visible/understandable/evident to anyone, not just the person experiencing it. Contrast this with Si, which must be internal--taking information about the physical/tangible world in an "internal" manner, one that is not obvious/visible/understandable/evident to everyone, but only to the person experiencing it. What does that look like when it happens? Well, what is a "personal interpretation" of a physical/tangible event or thing? It is something like the impression of how that thing "feels." In some ways, of course, the impression is not like the actual thing, because it is your perception of the thing.

    If you've never encountered Thing X before, Si does not really know what to do with it. It is stumped unless it can compare to a somewhat similar thing. This is why SJs are described as being "uneasy with change." However, if you have encountered Thing X before, Si compares it to the "mental template" of it in your head. The "mental template" obviously comes from previous experiences, because you can't build one based on concrete experiences that haven't happened to you yet, so necessarily, the new situation is compared to "past data." Extrapolating from that comes all the SJ typical qualities of being comfortable with tradition, having a good memory, living in the past, etc. In my opinion, that's certainly a natural path to flow from the nature of Si to those qualities, but not the only path, and not for the reason most people think.

    Hope that made some sense...
    This makes a lot of sense to me given what I've seen of Si-tert in an INFP, and also as a way to think about Si versus Ni.

    I also like your description of introverted perception as something that is "not obvious/visible/understandable/evident to everyone, but only to the person experiencing it." That fits Ni too, for me at least (Ni-dom).

    I have a question for you, if I may ask. I have this thing that happens for me every so often that I find fascinating and frustrating, and I've vaguely wondered if it could somehow be Si (which is not even in my top 4 functions and is apparently my very last unconscious process, if the 8 function model is accurate for me).

    So what happens is this: I'll get a very brief vivid memory-flash of a very specific physical place I've been in sometime in the past, complete with a vague memory-sense of some aspect of how it felt ("felt" viscerally, not emotionally) to me to be there. It's very often a flash of a physical place that my conscious mind doesn't even remember being in - until the flash. I always get the feeling that my mind is trying to communicate some information to me about the present situation by giving me this flash - but for me it's like it's in some sort of code that I can't decipher. I've wished I could break this code to understand, because the information is probably pretty useful. But it's inaccessible to me.

    I think about how Ni works for me and how easy it is for me to flow with the underlying meaning of the Ni images, metaphors etc etc information I get. And it seems to me that the flashes described above trigger the part of me that knows that information can be communicated in pre-concious symbols. But these "past physical place" flashes are in a language I just don't understand, and not once have I ever figured out WTF one of these things actually means (while in contrast I always sense and then know what the Ni stuff means, and even when I don't know consciously, I have the feel of working in/with a language I instinctively understand)

    So I wonder: does what I describe of the place-memory-flash thing sound to you like it could be a very weak/unconscious form of Si? I know it's weird to ask this of a Si-dom (because it's so weak for me but is your dom function), but I am curious to know what you think. (also: I'm pretty sure my dad was an ISTJ, but we never got the chance to talk about any of this before he died. I wish we had).

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    So what happens is this: I'll get a very brief vivid memory-flash of a very specific physical place I've been in sometime in the past, complete with a vague memory-sense of some aspect of how it felt ("felt" viscerally, not emotionally) to me to be there. It's very often a flash of a physical place that my conscious mind doesn't even remember being in - until the flash.
    Sounds kind of like Si at work, yes. I usually have a constant subconscious background going on of places or things and how they're "supposed to look/feel" in my head, not usually flashes. I don't usually think about it, though, because it's not something that requires effort or lends well to explanation.
    I always get the feeling that my mind is trying to communicate some information to me about the present situation by giving me this flash - but for me it's like it's in some sort of code that I can't decipher. I've wished I could break this code to understand, because the information is probably pretty useful. But it's inaccessible to me.
    But this part, not really. This latter part sounds more like your N at work.

    It's also funny that I experience Ni in a similar way as you here, where it occurs as a flash about...once per year. Rare enough and striking enough that I remember it well, though, because it's noteworthy that it even happened, and usually changes the way I see other things as well, so its effects are memorable, too. I don't feel I can describe Ni as well as Si, it's a little hard to grasp as a function.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    So I wonder: does what I describe of the place-memory-flash thing sound to you like it could be a very weak/unconscious form of Si? I know it's weird to ask this of a Si-dom (because it's so weak for me but is your dom function), but I am curious to know what you think. (also: I'm pretty sure my dad was an ISTJ, but we never got the chance to talk about any of this before he died. I wish we had).
    Doesent sound like Si. Intuition is perception via/of the unconscious and this type of perception you describe is clearly an perception of the unconscious, not an subjective(via abstraction process) reaction to sense perception(which is what Si is).

    Also if sensing is extraverted(your 4th function), then it cant also be introverted. INFJ has intuition as Pi, not sensing.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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