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Thread: Socionics EIE vs. ENFJ in MBTI

  1. #1

    Default Socionics EIE vs. ENFJ in MBTI

    Does this description match your idea of what an mbti ENFJ is supposed to be like? If not, is there a better match in your opinion? I found the Fi-section interesting and marked a few parts that stood out to me in red.

    Extroverted Ethics (Fe, Fe)

    EIEs are naturally animate and passionate and are skilled at generating liveliness and excitement. They believe that people need to be emotionally involved in life, not distant or indifferent to the important things that are happening. EIEs often hold strong views about governance and social custom, though their beliefs stem from the interests of their close emotional relationships. EIEs like to involve people in interaction and create groups based around a shared experience. They tend to try to continually broaden these groups and engage people who seem to be on the sidelines. The individuals who the EIE is spending time with are far more important to the EIE than the event that is actually taking place. EIEs like to make their friends laugh, and employ an over-the-top style of humor. Often the joke is on the EIE, whether or not they know it.

    EIEs are one of the most insightful types about the minds and inner workings of people, and as a result are likely to be skilled persuaders. Their sensitivity to the emotional flow around them allows them a relative sense of emotional control of a situation, and they have an uncanny ability to convince others, even without the use of logic. EIEs generally don't use their persuasion tactics for manipulative gain over others (as much of their sense of self-worth comes from impacting people positively), but they've been known to use these tactics negatively in cases where they cannot win approval of their arguments. In many situations, nevertheless, EIEs value equality among social standards and do not mind taking the back seat if others wish to take the lead. EIEs love their friends, and they will do anything to keep them. Time spent alone for the EIE is often spent thinking about how to better interact with close relationships, even when time spent in those relationships is not particularly pleasing. Even when the other individual is hostile, if the EIE judges them to be a friend they will act in a caring fashion and show affection to the other.

    Introverted Intuition (Ni, Ni)

    EIEs have a keen sense of the significance of the moment, life's flow of events, and the past and future evolution of things. The excitement they stimulate generally has to do with insensible things that can only be perceived over time, rather than with experiences that are captured in a specific moment. For example, they love to instill confidence in people by taking great detail to their problems and envisioning ways of handling them. EIEs are quite able to "paint pictures with words", so to speak. They enjoy having objects around them that provide a connection to the past, such as ancient trinkets or souvenirs, old-fashioned things, and items from another time and place. They like to be aware of and talk about their place in history, as the EIE's concept of humanity itself is largely perceived through the sensation of trends over time. As a result, they like to imagine scenarios of different ways a situation can unfold with their imagination; such actions give them a sense of security about what is to come.

    EIEs are very open about their feelings of hesitation, apprehension, anticipation, and anxiety regarding events. Sometimes they are melodramatic about risks and dangers, but this helps them and those around them to be aware of and to prepare for possible negative turns of events. It disappoints the EIE greatly when advice given to another is rejected, but not much weighs a helpful EIE down more than to see people wasting their potential by dwelling in their past problems. They tend to believe that people, regardless of long-term psychological mistreatment, can improve their lives to some extent.

    EIEs reject the idea that life is just a sequence of ho-hum everyday events with no particular meaning. They want everything to have a grand or symbolic purpose that arouses the imagination and passions. For that matter, EIEs seek to define their unique purpose in life, and orient goals around the meaning they infer from their experiences across time. They constantly seek to improve the negative conditions surrounding them, and so tend to look for problems even when it isn't necessary.

    EIEs also frequently reflect on their dreams, making symbolizations of the events that occur in dreams and relating them to external reality. They enjoy contemplating on what their subconscious psyche is displaying to them.

    Super-ego block
    Extroverted Logic (Te, Te)

    EIEs do not easily focus on the procedural aspects of things where their emotions and excitement have no place. They avoid administrative tasks whenever possible. Although they dislike routine work, they admire those who are able to maintain organization and efficiency in their lives, as long as those standards aren't imposed on themselves. They also enjoy an extent of logical debate about intellectual topics but hardly consider practicality when it comes to forming their own beliefs.

    Efficiency always takes the back seat when the feelings of others are involved. The EIE will often disregard how work is being done if friends are leading the effort. If an enemy is in charge the EIE will harass and defame the enemy if a procedure is not being done effectively. EIEs like to simply get their work done in a short amount time and get it out of the way, often without putting much of a focus on the quality of the work itself. As such they tend to dislike those who are overly 'work-oriented' and indifferent to the emotional aspect of things. However, EIEs appreciate someone who knows an abundance of information; one who can be depended on to correct problems and maximize the efficiency of work-related projects the EIE is involved in.

    EIEs attempt to make their emotive decisions correlate to rationality when taking action, as they want others to see the logic in the actions the EIE wants to take. However, when they themselves are confident in the importance of doing something, EIEs feel that logical explanations are only necessary for those who ask for them. Personal decisions are mainly made without even factoring in productivity or how beneficial they are, as EIEs tend to have a difficult time considering those factors.

    Introverted Sensing (Si, Si)

    The EIE is more likely to measure the comfortableness of conversation than other more physiological signs. Still, they are quite attuned to the the physical sensations others are experiencing and use the information to raise and lower the emotional conditions that those individuals are experiencing. In any case however, EIEs are prone to making errors in daily routine. This can include having little or no idea of where they put an object, allowing neglected responsibilities to pile up, or failing to remember important tasks given to them; excessive procrastination is common in EIEs. The EIE has little respect for people who seem to be too concerned with their health and comfort and who avoid straining themselves. The EIE feels that people who focus too much on caring for themselves will have no time to achieve anything worthwhile.

    The EIE will feel empty and restless if he is in a situation where he is expected to just chill out and have a good time; he would feel that this undermines his devotion to realizing his abstract visions. He can only enjoy visceral contact with reality if it is accompanied by an active will to initiate such contact, to intentionally engage it. EIEs frequently reflect on experiences with others, both positive and negative, and are always bracing themselves for future problems (which mostly involve other people). This extensive planning of future engagements cause EIEs to often feel restless as they want to implement their goals quickly. In situations where they are forced to remain patient and idle, EIEs can dwell in their stress and neglect real problems.

    Super-id block
    Introverted Logic (Ti, Ti)

    EIEs admire people whose thinking is clear-cut, unambiguous, and stalwart, who reduce the myriad of possibilities down to one single option. This is something they are almost completely unable to do on their own (they easily doubt their ability to choose right), but have a deep need for in other people.

    In conversation EIEs tend to go off on tangents when something is mentioned that triggers an emotional response, and they often need to be reminded of the subject matter or purpose of the discussion.

    EIEs love to hear about information that their friends know. Talking about academic subjects, music, and movies expands the horizons of the EIE and gives them direction. The EIE is happy to simply be a part of the discussion of various subjects, while providing emotional input himself. The information just gives them a new reason to see their friends, and more things to talk about with them.

    EIEs are happy to let someone else organize their schedule and keep track of their engagements and things to do.

    Extroverted Sensing (Se, Se)

    EIEs struggle with focus and willpower and have a need for something or someone that will focus them consistently and prod them to act despite any feelings of apprehension and doubt. EIEs know that they often need to "just do it" and often look for something or someone that will provide the impetus and make them "do it." EIEs are drawn to people who exude determination and resolve. People who are certain of their views and cannot be swayed by external forces are especially attractive. Such people are, in a way, the opposite of themselves.

    EIEs can be brash and harshly critical during fits of passion, and they appreciate people who are not fazed by their ravings, but calmly stand their ground. If such people are at times angry and forceful with them, they take this as a sign that the person cares enough to be emotionally involved in their lives. In conversation, EIEs have a tendency to impose their opinions on others in a forceful way, especially when challenged by a point of view that conflicts with theirs. They dislike giving in to others when they strongly believe in their own way of doing things, and can act smug and arrogant towards people who openly criticize their viewpoints.

    Id block
    Introverted Ethics (Fi, Fi)

    EIEs generally refuse to conform to standards of what is acceptable and nice to say. Instead, they try to express themselves spontaneously — sometimes harshly, sometimes sweetly or kindly — not because that is what other people expect of them, but because that is what they actually feel at the moment.

    EIEs understand interpersonal relationships and their own sentiments towards things and people, but they prefer to focus on the external side of these things (what happened, who said what and how they said it, etc.) and not dig around in people's minds or internal motives. They also dislike it when others express a negative evaluation of another; EIEs tend to view them as overly judgmental and closed-minded.

    EIEs are usually hesitant about deciding how somebody internally feels about them if they aren't receiving expression from the person. If contact dwindles between themselves and another, EIEs frequently doubt that their relation is positive; if the person matters enough to them, EIEs can become overly consumed in trying to "solve the problem", and as a result tend to be quite overbearing.

    Extroverted Intuition (Ne, Ne)

    EIEs can generate random ideas or come up with lots of crazy alternatives for fun, but they prefer to focus on understanding the development of a particular situation and not be distracted with possibilities that are outside that situation. Too much idea generation and focus on all the possibilities open to them actually disorients them, as they are already plenty scattered enough.

    When experiencing deep stress resulting from a conflict, however, they become very doubtful about forecasting the likely unfolding of the conflict and start to use this function to imagine how events could happen. If resolution to the problem seems unlikely, or if nothing is being done to turn things around, EIEs turn to dark thoughts about what is likely to happen and become absorbed by the conflict (even if these negative thoughts are not very rational).

  2. #2
    Seal Down Array Hard's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
    1w2 sp/so
    SLE Se


    You know, after reading this, combined with a number of people over time saying I am ENFj, not ISTj, and actually reading this with a more open mind, I can see this fitting for me better than ISTj. I think part of it (as was mentioned by several) my being a 1w2 will color things to look ISTj, when it really isn't. There are a number of things in here where I will emphatically say "no, I am not like that at all", but I think part of me wants to be an ISTj (because I see that type as highly efficient and productive, something I strive very hard for), hence things are slanted that way.

    Not settled yet, but this does seem possible or likely.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari

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