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  1. #1
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    Default Brain damage and type change? - The Jason Padgett case

    Does type change happen through brain injury?

    See quick description of the case in article here.

    The guy was a very typical Se-dom E7, probably ESTP, now he's more like INxx E5, INTP or maybe NiTi loop.

    (I thought INTP first but then he mentions in the book that he now has the ability of picking up other people's feelings very well. I don't know what that is... And there's some Ni-like thingies too in the book.)

    Thoughts?

    PS. I have the book as ebook if anyone wants it

  2. #2
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    People having personality changes after brain injuries, such as strokes is well known. As such, type definitely can change.
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    It seems to me like his hobbies changed more than his personality. Suddenly being extremely gifted and involuntarily seeing the mathematics of everything might make you change your priorities.

    With that said, doesn't different personality types make more use of different parts of the brain? (I think Dario Nardi has researched this.)

    If so, it sounds like rerouting neural pathways (or however other parts of the brain become more accessible, I'm no biologist) could make you a different personality type.
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    I would hesitate to comment on his enneagram type from that alone. I could easily have said about my youth, "I was a typical shut-in with no friends who spent her free time studying and exploring the mysteries of the universe", but that doesn't make me an Fi-dom 5 any more than "I currently wander the world, live for the moment, and fight anyone who gets in the way" makes me an Se-dom 8w7.

    The article said that he is accessing parts of his brain people don't normally access, not that his personality changed. He did suffer from PTSD, but that's a trauma-based reaction that can cause changes in habits and reactions, but it's not a change in type.

    PTSD =/= Introvert. Also, genius =/= type 5.

    Anyway, I don't know if severe brain trauma changes type, or just changes its expression. Until we know what creates type, I'd say none of us will be able to speak definitively on that.

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    I think it's a reasonable conclusion that, if someone's brain is fundamentally changed or forced to operate differently due to injury, that their personality might go through radical changes. The question is, is this a new personality, or merely another, dormant side of their old personality?

    I know it's fiction, but the movie Regarding Henry is a pretty decent example.

    I'm also fascinated by people who unlock hidden talents after head trauma. My wife told me that one of her uncles f-ed his head up in a motorcycle accident and was suddenly able to play the piano (very well, according to her), having never had a lesson in his life.
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    hypersane Hive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    I'm also fascinated by people who unlock hidden talents after head trauma. My wife told me that one of her uncles f-ed his head up in a motorcycle accident and was suddenly able to play the piano (very well, according to her), having never had a lesson in his life.
    Seems strange. Being a proficient piano player would require some amount of motor learning. Maybe he got a better ear for music, acquiring something close to a perfect pitch. Otherwise it sounds like planting false information in your muscle memory or something, which is a less likely but way cooler explanation. Imagine a Jason Bourne-like scenario where you wake up from a head injury and find yourself being able to instinctively immobilize a threat by striking a person's pressure points at lightning speed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hive View Post
    Seems strange. Being a proficient piano player would require some amount of motor learning. Maybe he got a better ear for music, acquiring something close to a perfect pitch. Otherwise it sounds like planting false information in your muscle memory or something, which is a less likely but way cooler explanation. Imagine a Jason Bourne-like scenario where you wake up from a head injury and find yourself being able to instinctively immobilize a threat by striking a person's pressure points at lightning speed.
    It's possible there are facts missing from her anecdote as well. I've heard other similar stories of head trauma victims unlocking talents they never knew they had. Sheeet, I need to get whacked in the head and maybe I'll be able to memorize phonebooks a la Rainman.
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    hypersane Hive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    It's possible there are facts missing from her anecdote as well. I've heard other similar stories of head trauma victims unlocking talents they never knew they had. Sheeet, I need to get whacked in the head and maybe I'll be able to memorize phonebooks a la Rainman.
    There needs to be a scientific field devoted to talents induced by blunt trauma. Perhaps different brains will store different talents, or maybe a variety of talents can be unlocked depending on the location and force of the blow.

    Shit I can't talk about this anymore, starting to feel uneasy, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hive View Post
    It seems to me like his hobbies changed more than his personality.
    Actually, it's not just his hobbies. His whole attitude to the world changed. Totally upside-down really. I'm reading the book and the guy says that it does feel like an entire new personality. He did have to come to terms with that fact - that his old self was completely lost.


    Suddenly being extremely gifted and involuntarily seeing the mathematics of everything might make you change your priorities.
    Yeah, and part of it was the accident itself - initially the PTSD he developed made him extremely asocial. He improved on that later though. But his new personality stayed after that too.


    With that said, doesn't different personality types make more use of different parts of the brain? (I think Dario Nardi has researched this.)

    If so, it sounds like rerouting neural pathways (or however other parts of the brain become more accessible, I'm no biologist) could make you a different personality type.
    Yeah I was thinking the same.

    Though it's crazy how it can also unlock abilities heh.

    Some of the changes in this case are not just personality changes btw, I think something's up with his vision. And he acquired a kind of synesthesia that I'd call "synesthesia of logic" Basically he sees shapes for numbers and logic in math.

    The weird thing is, I have a similar synesthesia myself but I never suffered a brain injury. It just developed on its own over time. Though his version is "crazier" than mine , it activates more strongly for him. And mine's not actually tangibly seen outside in the world, he actually sees some shit out in the world, he sees an overlay of visual representations of logic over physical objects. I only see such overlay inside my mind, I have to withdraw into my mind to see it well.

    Anyway I will admit that's part of the reason why I got so interested in his case I underwent a slow change of personality over time, a bit similar to his, though I didn't lose my old self, as I said this was no head injury for me, just circumstances. A lot of me didn't really change anyway, just part of me and I think the origins of the change were always inside me even as a small kid, it just needed time to develop. But anyway his changes are much more drastic. And his synesthesia also more drastic. A slight parallel still. I *have to* wonder if there's a link between the two.

    Sorry if that didn't make much sense to you or anyone. It's hard to explain. But if you got thoughts on it, feel free to share.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    I would hesitate to comment on his enneagram type from that alone. I could easily have said about my youth, "I was a typical shut-in with no friends who spent her free time studying and exploring the mysteries of the universe", but that doesn't make me an Fi-dom 5 any more than "I currently wander the world, live for the moment, and fight anyone who gets in the way" makes me an Se-dom 8w7.
    Well his new personality was at least initially pretty afraid of the world - some of that was the PTSD though -, and he loves getting immersed in a world of concepts. He just simply can't live without that. He doesn't just spend his free time studying.

    And btw why doesn't that sort of make you an 5? Say, disintegration of your 8 fix to 5 for example? (Btw I don't see how that example has anything to do with Fi... Ti or Ni maybe.) Or living for the moment, why doesn't that make you an Se-dom type? That latter one is by definition SP type actually... I'm not sure I understand your underlying reasoning here. Please let me know what you meant here.


    The article said that he is accessing parts of his brain people don't normally access, not that his personality changed. He did suffer from PTSD, but that's a trauma-based reaction that can cause changes in habits and reactions, but it's not a change in type.
    It's not simple PTSD, but yeah the article is pretty short. The book says a lot more about this. Still, even the article says it's more than PTSD.


    PTSD =/= Introvert. Also, genius =/= type 5.
    I never made such equations in my post. I'm not even sure if he's a genius, the point is that his fixation and attitude to the world seemed to change. And as for introvert, he pretty much got all the hallmarks of being one and he does abstract away stuff from objects (well that's the jungian definition of introversion, mind you);


    Anyway, I don't know if severe brain trauma changes type, or just changes its expression. Until we know what creates type, I'd say none of us will be able to speak definitively on that.
    That's a good question. Now in this case, can the ESTP type have such an expression of the type that in practice means living in a world of mathematical concepts with such passion? What do you think?

    The way he approaches Sensation now is very un-SP-ish.

    Btw he repeatedly says in the book - I think in the article too? - that even the bad side effects of the change - OCD for example - are worth it, he loves this new world opened up to him so much and he would not want to return to his old self now.

    As for what creates type, if we accept the idea that our functioning is dependant on the physical brain's functioning then it would be pretty logical to assume that it's possible for severe physical changes in the brain to cause an entire personality type change. Of course if one doesn't want to accept the assumption that we are just our brains then this reasoning doesn't hold. :P


    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    I think it's a reasonable conclusion that, if someone's brain is fundamentally changed or forced to operate differently due to injury, that their personality might go through radical changes. The question is, is this a new personality, or merely another, dormant side of their old personality?
    Well in this guy's case it must've been a very much dormant side.

    Even if we try to type his new personality as NiTi loop INFJ and not INTP, the inferior function isn't really going to cut it as "dormant side of personality". It's opposing the dominant function in too many ways.


    I know it's fiction, but the movie Regarding Henry is a pretty decent example.
    Thanks I'll try to look that up.


    I'm also fascinated by people who unlock hidden talents after head trauma. My wife told me that one of her uncles f-ed his head up in a motorcycle accident and was suddenly able to play the piano (very well, according to her), having never had a lesson in his life.
    The book also mentions these things and yeah for some reason this sudden ability to play the piano play has surfaced in several cases. Though that would just be a hobby, not an entire personality change.

  10. #10
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hive View Post
    There needs to be a scientific field devoted to talents induced by blunt trauma. Perhaps different brains will store different talents, or maybe a variety of talents can be unlocked depending on the location and force of the blow.

    Shit I can't talk about this anymore, starting to feel uneasy, lol.
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