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  1. #11
    Senior Member Ilah's Avatar
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    I like the suggestion of referring to people as INT or ITN rather than INTP or INTJ. When I was learning the system, I had to keep double checking if J or P means the S/N trait is the dominant.

    I also like the idea of just using NiTe instead of INTJ. I think this could also be adapted to use some of the MBTI terms to describe those with non standard development. For example, I am INTJ, so I would be NiTe, but my Ni was not veiwed favorably growing up so my Te often comes across as stronger. I might decribe myself as I TeNi - introverted but with Te a stronger fuction than Ni.

    Not sure if this is off the subject or not but I am curious - why are the forums NT, NF, SJ and SP? Why not NT, NF, ST and SF?

    Ilah

  2. #12
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    "?"s idea is good. I know it's good because I thought of it before.

    There's already a thread on this isn't there?

    Anyway, P/J is a joke. Death to P/J.
    we fukin won boys

  3. #13
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    Interesting. I agree with you that was Jung's main intention.

    I think the problem is that at times the dominant function and the auxiliary function will both play a large role (and sometimes close to equal) in a person's life- especially for introverts that are forced into the external world.
    Based on Jung, the auxiliary function may be undeveloped or non-existent. Myers-Briggs work is based on healthy types and there is little information (as you know) regarding how someone using under developed functions may appear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    The extraverted counterpart of the ITN is the ENT, for instance. People who don't know much about Meyer-Briggs would assume that the extraverted counterpart of the ITN is the ETN, which is certainly not the case.
    I think this depends on what your definition of counter part may be. Some think that the counter parts are those with identical functions but with reversed attitudes, thus the counter for ITN (Ti-Ne) would be ETN (Te-Ni).

  4. #14
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I think J/P are useful, especially when mapping temperament theory (and Interaction Styles) to the system. A person who extraverts a judging function will have certain traits that are significant and noticeable, when compared to someone who extraverts perception. This will affect behaviors such as directing or informing communication (which themselves are indicators of people vs task orientation, which is the other factor besides I and E traditionally used in temperament theory).
    I see your point Eric. Myers-Briggs' assertion was that the ST-SF was equally different as NT-NF. Keirsey's theory does make more sense due to the notable differences in SJ-SP.

  5. #15
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Thanks for all of the feedback. I have no expectations of the system ever changing, but it just seemed more functional to reduce the codes to meet Jung's original intent. Again the J/P merely indicates the extraverted function of each type. Myers-Briggs seemed to have placed more emphasis on this when inverting the introverted types. The whole premise is to limit the confusion of dichotomies. The proposed codes are an combination of Myers-Briggs' original codes modified to meet Jung's theory that even the introverted functions are noticeable.

  6. #16
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Based on Jung, the auxiliary function may be undeveloped or non-existent. Myers-Briggs work is based on healthy types and there is little information (as you know) regarding how someone using under developed functions may appear.I think this depends on what your definition of counter part may be. Some think that the counter parts are those with identical functions but with reversed attitudes, thus the counter for ITN (Ti-Ne) would be ETN (Te-Ni).
    It's an interesting take.
    I agree that it matters on the definition of 'counterpart'.
    However, it is clear that the ITN and ENT are more similar in terms of behavior than the ITN and ETN. I agree that there are some people who have a very strong dominant function and an 'undeveloped' auxiliary function.

    However, I have a question.
    If I feel I use Ti & Ne about equally- where does that put me in terms of Jung types.
    From Myers, I can say that I am an XNTP but from Jung, I am either an ITN or ENT.. oy, this must be why so many people like Socionics so much!!

    Would it be IT/EN../EN/IT... always interchanging?
    MBTI Type: iNTj
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  7. #17
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    I see your point Eric. Myers-Briggs' assertion was that the ST-SF was equally different as NT-NF. Keirsey's theory does make more sense due to the notable differences in SJ-SP.
    Myers used ALL ways of grouping types. It depends on your purpose. Her most notable work actually made use of grouping by dominants. Temperaments (Kiersey) are useful for leadership and teams, quadrants (ES, IS, EN, IN) for learning styles and change management, dominants for problem solving and team analysis, function pairs (ST, SF, NF, NT) for communication, the last letters for conflict skill development and so on.

    Myers actually added J-P so that a person could understand from the code the dominant function--it points to the extraverted function, which is the auxiliary function for Introverts. In the actual training to administer the MBTI, learning the "order of preferences" that the codes reveal and that unpack dominant/auxiliary/tertiary/inferior is over 20% of the test and a huge chunk of time.

    Myers did not believe that the dominant and auxiliary are equal. In Gifts Differing she wrote "One process --sensing, intuition, thinking or feeling--must have clear sovereignty, with opportunity to reach its full development, if a person is to be really effective.

    "One process alone, however, is not enough. For people to be balanced, they need adequate (but by no means equal) development of a second process, not as a rival to the dominant process but as a welcome auxiliary." (p. 11)

    The point made above about purpose is key--Jung's work came from his clinical practice and Myers was concentrating on normal differences among normal people--how could understanding bring about a better world...
    edcoaching

  8. #18
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    Only if there was a "TNT".. wow, I'm so lame.

    Type: ITS
    heh, viva la revolution?

    *waits to see when it becomes strong enough to join*

  9. #19
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    ......However, I have a question. If I feel I use Ti & Ne about equally- where does that put me in terms of Jung types.

    From Myers, I can say that I am an XNTP but from Jung, I am either an ITN or ENT.. oy, this must be why so many people like Socionics so much!!

    Would it be IT/EN../EN/IT... always interchanging?
    Mondo, your confusion along the E/I dichotomy is consistent with most of us. Myers-Briggs usage of dichotomies confuses us because of it's forced choice. Jung and Myers-Briggs agree that type rarity comes when someone is 100% or close to that with a certain function or dichotomy. In reality we are somewhere in the middle. If you do use your Ti-Ne equally it simply means you have a well developed type. Yet arguably Myers-Briggs would have us believe that the extraverted function is seen by people first. I am still not sure on that. Again Jung says that the introverted function is just as noticeable.

    One thing that I have come to realize is that I use my Se in defense at times and usually when around people that I don't know well. When at home or comfortable around others, my Ti is very noticeable.

  10. #20
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    "One process alone, however, is not enough. For people to be balanced, they need adequate (but by no means equal) development of a second process, not as a rival to the dominant process but as a welcome auxiliary." (p. 11)
    I agree with you on everything, even this statement, but I am not sure whether it's realistic for someone to maintain the balanced state alluded to by Myers-Briggs. Our environment and circumstances usually makes us resort back to using our dominant function, and ocassionaly using our auxiliary defensively or to serve our dominant function.

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