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  1. #21
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underwaterthing View Post
    This is mostly speculation, but I see INxPs as more likely to back out of commitments to avoid social overexertion, and ENxPs are probably more likely to flake out out of indecisiveness/desire for different possibilities.
    yes, I think the energy drain of interactions can be a large factor in introvert commitment making. The E's seem to generate energy through engagement but just vascillate among options.

    I find myself kind of a mix.

    Sometimes the exhaustion of just carrying through on a commitment I wasn't totally into leaves me wanting to pull out / disappear / not show. And other times I wonder if it's a good use of my time and whether a different opportunity is better.

    I'm pretty responsible, though. If my presence is necessary, I show anyway. I only flake if I assess things and I'm inconsequential or plans can be changed easily, but I usually still feel bad. What happens now is that I just never commit in the first place. But I don't like backing out of things after I have agreed to them; it can be a trap for me sometimes, that sense of responsibility.

    I definitely have a war going on between my thought process (which spits out answers, i.e., closure) and then feel kind of hemmed in / smothered if I don't have enough flexibility there. I realized over the course of my life that I need more space / leash in order to be happy.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underwaterthing View Post
    I know a FeNe ESFJ who is ridiculously flaky in a cavalier way, to the point where I considered putting our friendship on hold until she matured and became more respectful.
    There's something to this. Although it is said to be the domain of Ps, I have seen flakiness from Js, as well. They just go about it differently.

    I don't think anyone who knows me IRL would consider me a flake and I'm an EP. They'd tell you, when asked, that I am a procrastinator, that I can be chaotic at times, that I have very poor time-management skills for social engagements, but I'm in no way, flakey with commitments I've made/promises that I've given. And if I do back out, it is due to a more urgent or critical matter coming up. "Sorry I can't make it to your birthday, even though I said I would be there, but my mom just went to the hospital tonight."

    I've had this discussion with my close others, as I know that I'm highly impressionable. I do flake when it comes to my interests, and following through with pet projects that I've set for myself, where there are no consequences for others, as I don't have the best follow-through record. I can change my mind so fast, it can give others whiplash. However, if I change my mind, when it comes to a commitment that I've already made, then, the only times I go with my changed mind, rather than following through with the commitment is because I have a sound rationale for why the change of mind is more important than following through with the commitment. And, in such cases, I will call up the person I made the commitment to, and explain my rationale, which, most of the time, they understand, as there's a sound rationale behind it. Other times, it ends up that I convince them enough to change their mind as well, and they follow me with my new change of plans.

    My ENFJ friend described me as such: "You're unpredictable but not unaccountable."

    I think it's about responsibility and obligations. Not only a P versus J issue.

    Js, in my expedrience, can, and do, manifest flakiness, in their own "J" way. Now, given the below are only anecdotes, but:

    ESFJ 1 takes on so many responsibilities, commitments, as she likes organizing this, leading that, plus, her own work, classes, homelife, etc., etc., and then, inevitably, she gets stressed when they all come to a head, and starts to back out of one of her many commitments she has made because it's "too much". Flakey.

    ESFJ 2 feels bad for saying "no" when asked to help out, and/or feels like it would be socially unacceptable to say "no" to the particular thing. Then, resentment and anxiety builds, and finally, they decide to do what they should have done in the first place. Say "no", but by then, it's coloured with expectations and having committed already, etc., etc. Turning a "yes" to a "no" is harder than starting off with a "no" in the first place. <- A thing I've told her many times. My INFP mother has this same issue. Flakey.

    ENFJ aims to read what the other wants from them, trying to accomodate the other, but, in the end, realizes that the resultant agreed-upon decision wasn't a fair compromise between themselves and the other, and then starts to backpeddle. Flakey.

  3. #23
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Rarely, because I'm not often in the position of not wanting to do something. I like things, and doing them; I'm not picky. When genuine chance intervenes and I can't do a thing, I'm very disappointed, so why would I be the obstacle myself? But when something does come along that I don't want to do, it's not difficult to say no to the initial invitation.

    It's surprising how common flaking is and how tolerated. It feels like a big deal when I'm faced with the choice.
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  4. #24
    metamorphosing Flâneuse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Js, in my expedrience, can, and do, manifest flakiness, in their own "J" way. Now, given the below are only anecdotes, but:

    ESFJ 1 takes on so many responsibilities, commitments, as she likes organizing this, leading that, plus, her own work, classes, homelife, etc., etc., and then, inevitably, she gets stressed when they all come to a head, and starts to back out of one of her many commitments she has made because it's "too much". Flakey.

    ESFJ 2 feels bad for saying "no" when asked to help out, and/or feels like it would be socially unacceptable to say "no" to the particular thing. Then, resentment and anxiety builds, and finally, they decide to do what they should have done in the first place. Say "no", but by then, it's coloured with expectations and having committed already, etc., etc. Turning a "yes" to a "no" is harder than starting off with a "no" in the first place. <- A thing I've told her many times. My INFP mother has this same issue. Flakey.

    ENFJ aims to read what the other wants from them, trying to accomodate the other, but, in the end, realizes that the resultant agreed-upon decision wasn't a fair compromise between themselves and the other, and then starts to backpeddle. Flakey.
    I definitely see Fe-doms and ESFPs (especially Social-doms) "spreading themselves thin" socially. To be honest, because it's so foreign to how I operate, it's pretty common for me to write it off as frivolous instead of trying to look deeper into the person's motivations. It's possible that this person (an ESFJ 2w3 so/sx) just overextends herself, tries to accommodate everyone, and then gets burnt out and feels the need to cancel some of her plans because there were simply too many to handle. Then when she cancels at the last minute but doesn't provide a full explanation of her reasons (or a good apology), because I'm disappointed it's easy to assume the worst -- that she just found something more fun to do or that she "just didn't feel like it". ...I should probably talk to her about it instead of making assumptions and harboring resentment against her.

    I'm sure my previous flaking (which I've never done to the friend I mentioned) has come across as lazy & selfish "time gluttony", like I'm avoiding commitments just because I feel like it, when in reality it's mostly been because I felt extremely anxious and/or like I needed to be alone but I felt uneasy explaining those things to others. (Maybe my friend has a similar unease with talking about the motivations behind her habit of "flaking".) (Of course, it's a major inconvenience and a terrible habit no matter the reasons.)

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