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[MBTI General] Te / Fi types: define passive aggressive behaviour

PeaceBaby

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I've noticed for some time a pattern that I think merits exploration - I'm wondering if there's a loose correlation between type and what each type grouping sees as passive aggressive behaviour.

The definitions of passive-aggressiveness are being deliberately left out here. First, because there is a lot of variation between definitions. Second, because a lot of folks seem to have their own definition, and that's the part that might be revealing.

Here's what to do:

1.) please share your definition of passive-aggressiveness.

2.) please share an example or two of what you see as passive-aggressive behaviour. Anecdotes are welcome.
 

Rail Tracer

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Saying/doing something without outright saying/doing it. That is what I view as passive-aggressiveness. Often times, a person chooses to use a detour to give similar feelings as the aggressive behavior. Since that topic talked about attacking the idea versus attacking the person, one can say that attacking the idea is like a passive-aggressive form of attacking the person, although most accept that attacking an idea is better than attacking a person and it allows for a discussion to continue without name-calling. It all depends on how you are doing it...

If one is to say:
"You are stupid" that is outright aggressiveness behavior.
"That idea is stupid" it is passive-aggressiveness that is dutifully trying to mimic aggressive behavior.
"That idea is incorrect because......" may seem like passive-aggressiveness (we have people who take issue with having their ideas challenged) but this is generally the accepted form.

But like I said, passive-aggressive behavior is generally a detour around aggressive behavior. Not all passive-aggressive are bad, however.

Somewhat off-topic: Politics is a fun place, I still don't see why the mods won't break politics from history and current events, lol. Lots of the posts that are politics related tend to borderline into the passive-aggressive behavior. Some members (<----- see the passive-aggressive behavior here) like to send some type of message in an indirect way (also passive-aggressiveness.) You can see their views pretty clearly (I don't exclude myself from doing this,) and it tends to ignite a negative reaction on its readers.
 

gromit

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Having a strong negative feeling as a result of the behaviors of someone else and - instead of discussing the behaviors and the actual feelings - you lash out in other more subtle ways.

Hm... can't think of a good example. Oh if one person is annoyed that the other person doesn't do dishes (like if they live together). Instead of talking about the dish situation, the first person does something like putting all of the dirty dishes into the second person's bedroom. That seems pretty passive aggressive to me.
 

gromit

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I have also seen it happen in a purely social context... with words only... that is harder to pin down and I definitely can't think of any examples for that.
 

lue

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Hm... can't think of a good example. Oh if one person is annoyed that the other person doesn't do dishes (like if they live together). Instead of talking about the dish situation, the first person does something like putting all of the dirty dishes into the second person's bedroom. That seems pretty passive aggressive to me.

That's a good one.

I also think there's a difference between being a smart a** and being passive aggressive. I could be wrong. If person A is in a conversation with person B, and person A doesn't like what person B says, and responds with a smart a** comment (which is on the topic they're already discussing), I don't think that's passive aggressive. I think that's being a smart a**.
 

Tiltyred

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The wiki says
Passive-aggressive behavior is the indirect expression of hostility, such as through procrastination, sarcasm, hostile jokes, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness, or deliberate or repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible.
 

Coriolis

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The wiki says
Passive-aggressive behavior is the indirect expression of hostility, such as through procrastination, sarcasm, hostile jokes, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness, or deliberate or repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible.
Exactly. If I do something you don't like, and you don't call me directly on it but rather drop "hints" somehow that I am supposed to interpret, that's passive-aggressive. It leads me to conclude (perhaps incorrectly) that you don't have the courage to tackle the problem head-on. A direct approach can be kind, sarcastic, angry, whatever; the key is the directness. You tell me to my face exactly what the issue is, and how it is causing a problem (and ideally, what you would like me to do about it).
 

prplchknz

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so many te/fi people i've encounter on here claim not be passive agressive yet they come across as very much so. it's funny. I know I can be passive agressive. but it's like they're blind to it.
 

infinite

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Saying/doing something without outright saying/doing it. That is what I view as passive-aggressiveness. Often times, a person chooses to use a detour to give similar feelings as the aggressive behavior. Since that topic talked about attacking the idea versus attacking the person, one can say that attacking the idea is like a passive-aggressive form of attacking the person, although most accept that attacking an idea is better than attacking a person and it allows for a discussion to continue without name-calling. It all depends on how you are doing it...

If one is to say:
"You are stupid" that is outright aggressiveness behavior.
"That idea is stupid" it is passive-aggressiveness that is dutifully trying to mimic aggressive behavior.
"That idea is incorrect because......" may seem like passive-aggressiveness (we have people who take issue with having their ideas challenged) but this is generally the accepted form.

But like I said, passive-aggressive behavior is generally a detour around aggressive behavior. Not all passive-aggressive are bad, however.

What's passive-aggressive about saying "That idea is stupid" and how is it trying to mimic aggressive behaviour in your opinion?!

Do you really think that if someone says some idea that's not really good for whatever reason then you must be angry with the person and attack the person for it? Seriously?

Because, you calling this above passive-aggressive sounds like you assume everyone works this way: X says something crappy, Y gets angry with the person themselves instead of just wanting to shoot down the idea itself - yet only dares to attempt to attack the idea instead of the person.

No, I will break the news to you now, not everyone works in this way. Some people actually just focus on the idea and not the person who said it. I'm like this myself.

I will give this one thing to you, it's usually really offensive to call the bad idea stupid and yes in that sense it's an aggressive way of putting one's opinion.

PS: Some people are actually stupid too yeah, but I don't see a need to get angry over that, it's just how they are, as long as they don't get in my way I'm all cool.
 

Andy

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Passive-aggressive is when I hire a thug to administer a beating for me.
 

Hive

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1.) please share your definition of passive-aggressiveness.
Venting anger in ways you don't need to answer for.


2.) please share an example or two of what you see as passive-aggressive behaviour. Anecdotes are welcome.
For example, punishing me by don't answering my calls and then claim the battery was dead, or "forgetting" to pick me up and make me wait in the place for an hour.

Few things pisses me off as much. It's so cowardly I don't even know where to begin. Passive-aggression needs to be fought with direct aggression. I refuse to put up with that shit.
 

Freesia

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I see passive-aggressiveness as expressing anger or discontent in ways that are not "tangible", or can't be explicitly called on or proven as being aggressive. I see it as being slippery or slimy; it coats a problem in such a way that you can't get a firm enough grasp on it to handle it effectively.

A very generalized example of what I would consider as passive aggressive is when someone does something you don't like, and instead of discussing what they did, you act in a friendly or neutral manner to their face, yet rant about what they did behind their back, or find small ways to thwart the person in ways that either cannot be traced back to you or cannot be proven as purposely being aggressive.
 

Redbone

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Venting anger in ways you don't need to answer for.



For example, punishing me by don't answering my calls and then claim the battery was dead, or "forgetting" to pick me up and make me wait in the place for an hour.

Few things pisses me off as much. It's so cowardly I don't even know where to begin. Passive-aggression needs to be fought with direct aggression. I refuse to put up with that shit.

This.

I have too many examples...I don't even want to think about them long enough to list any.

But I'm the same...there's few things that enrage me as much as this. Sneaky, cowardly...you got a problem, just say so! We can discuss it--it's okay to be mad...we'll both eventually get over it. It's so frustrating to deal with someone that keeps dodging conflict and yet keeps making these little sneak attacks.
 

cascadeco

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I'd say there are a few forms, some being more 'blatant', such as the example gromit gave, where the person is directly taking some *action* to convey their displeasure or try to indirectly communicate that message of disapproval (almost to the point of being direct, just minus communicating with words), the other type is more subtle, not action-based but word-based, maybe withholding information, snubbing someone, reacting and speaking from a more emo place (fueled by ones' own displeasure or built-up resentment), essentially punishing the other person indirectly.

I think due to indirect nature of it, it results in the person being passive-aggressive being able to effectively deny any of it if they're called out on it.
 

Rail Tracer

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What's passive-aggressive about saying "That idea is stupid" and how is it trying to mimic aggressive behaviour in your opinion?!

Do you really think that if someone says some idea that's not really good for whatever reason then you must be angry with the person and attack the person for it? Seriously?

Because, you calling this above passive-aggressive sounds like you assume everyone works this way: X says something crappy, Y gets angry with the person themselves instead of just wanting to shoot down the idea itself - yet only dares to attempt to attack the idea instead of the person.

No, I will break the news to you now, not everyone works in this way. Some people actually just focus on the idea and not the person who said it. I'm like this myself.

I will give this one thing to you, it's usually really offensive to call the bad idea stupid and yes in that sense it's an aggressive way of putting one's opinion.

PS: Some people are actually stupid too yeah, but I don't see a need to get angry over that, it's just how they are, as long as they don't get in my way I'm all cool.

This post is stupid? (see what I did there?) It is the role of the speaker to have the least amount of people assume what you are talking about.

It is, in a general sense, passive-aggressiveness, doesn't matter if the other person is angry or not. It is ok to say that an idea is wrong.... and here is why... but having to say "that idea is stupid" is as bad as saying the person is stupid, really, it is just an easy workaround, even if the intent was to say that an idea doesn't hold.
 

lue

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This post is stupid? (see what I did there?) It is the role of the speaker to have the least amount of people assume what you are talking about.

It is, in a general sense, passive-aggressiveness, doesn't matter if the other person is angry or not. It is ok to say that an idea is wrong.... and here is why... but having to say "that idea is stupid" is as bad as saying the person is stupid, really, it is just an easy workaround, even if the intent was to say that an idea doesn't hold.

I disagree, I think that's just being an a**. It's a straightforward opinion, and just because it isn't constructive, doesn't mean it's passive aggressive.
 

infinite

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This post is stupid? (see what I did there?)

My reaction to this sort of stuff is requiring an explanation for the opinion. And that is because when the idea is being targeted instead of the person, I will be focusing on the idea, not the person. There is a difference.

This category wasn't even mentioned by you btw.. someone saying an idea is BS - in a rude way - and then proceeding to explain why.


It is the role of the speaker to have the least amount of people assume what you are talking about.

Nah, if I was to spend time on making sure about that, I'd never even manage to start speaking. It'd take too much time lol. Of course I'm not saying that it's recommended to ignore even the most basic rules of politeness.


It is, in a general sense, passive-aggressiveness, doesn't matter if the other person is angry or not.

Now why doesn't it matter if they're angry or not? If you don't have a problem, you won't be upset, thus by definition you can't be either aggressive or passive-aggressive about it.


It is ok to say that an idea is wrong.... and here is why... but having to say "that idea is stupid" is as bad as saying the person is stupid, really, it is just an easy workaround, even if the intent was to say that an idea doesn't hold.

If the intent was to say that the idea doesn't hold, then it's not a workaround about anything. Your judgment of an action does not change the original intent. And, if the intent was to not sound bad, then this isn't even a good workaround. So what you are saying here doesn't make sense at all to me.

All in all, [MENTION=21486]lue[/MENTION] put it very well.


I disagree, I think that's just being an a**. It's a straightforward opinion, and just because it isn't constructive, doesn't mean it's passive aggressive.

Yeah.. direct aggressive behaviour isn't always that constructive, good point :p I mean that as contrasted with assertiveness (not outright aggression).
 
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Ivy

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I think due to indirect nature of it, it results in the person being passive-aggressive being able to effectively deny any of it if they're called out on it.

This is it exactly, from my perspective. "Plausible deniability" is a defining factor of passive-aggression, IMO. And often the act of denying the aggression is a second act of aggression. Gosh, what kind of person are you that you saw THAT as aggressive?? Tsk tsk.
 

EJCC

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I'm going with the wiki/dictionary definition here -- and [MENTION=9486]gromit[/MENTION]'s example is good.

Glad this thread was created, because I was recently called out, by an INTP in full on shadow ESFJ mode, for "passive-aggressive behavior" -- and when I told him that I wasn't angry or hostile and that it was a misunderstanding, he said it was still passive-aggressive. However, the definition technically requires that passive-aggression be a method of expressing hostility or anger/resentment. So maybe one Fe vs. Fi definition difference would be that Fe users wouldn't care what was behind the action?
 

wolfy

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Like everyone else has said it is being aggressive in a way that you can't be called out on. An example might be if I was pissed at Peace Baby and this thread was a conversation between us and I answered with "Dunno" even though I do know.

Sometimes people confuse calm aggression with passive aggression.
 
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