[MBTI General] Intuitives are overrated

[lue]

I have no idea if this has been said already (didn't read the whole thread) but, I do agree that N's are overrated on the internet of things, but not necessarily in real life. For me, I have been seen as spacey, oblivious, and called "a dumb blonde." Not that these things aren't true (except for the blonde thing), just that I'm sure these things didn't help people take me seriously.

 

[Cellmold]

*shrug*

It's all ego-bait anyhow.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

This is so true it hurts! For example, right now, I think I can paint the deck surface, see my Mom at the hospital for 2 hours, go to the garden centre, purchase and plant some perennials and finish the garden mulch. By 5pm. And even though I am sitting typing this right this second. I often joke it's a good thing I'm an optimist or I wouldn't get anything done!

LOL! What's sad in my case is that I tend to yell at people for doing stuff like this when clearly it won't work out. Overlooking the fact that I live in a similar "optimism bubble" myself.

Yep. I could tell you a story from as far back as yesterday on this ... at least when you're older, rejection is less likely, and I care way less than I used to about that.

Yeah, I'm luckily not capable of caring anymore. That's the nice thing about growing up.

Yes. On that note, off to get the deck stain ready.

Off to study Japanese!!

 

[infinite]

The first time I took the Myers-Briggs so many years ago, I tested as a Sensor because Intuitive questions seemed very la-dee-da, spacey, and impractical. Yuck, I'm not like THAT.

Problem is, I actually am like that. And I'd agree, I'm kinda worthless. Like,

- I chronically forget valuable items such as my umbrella, bag, and/or keys, multiple times every day.
- I can't memorize worth shit.
- I walk into random furniture and get all these random bruises without even knowing how it happened.
- I forget I'm hungry, feverish, whatever.
- I walk around so lost in fantasy that I'm oblivious to myself and others.
- I habitually over-estimate my odds ("I can eat, shower, get everything ready and make it to the airport in just one hour!").
- I habitually pop out with nonsense that no one else understands, and I spent the better part of my childhood being laughed at and rejected for being "different".
- I become inflexibly sure things happened that didn't actually happen and get myself in trouble for acting on this.
- I can't keep my room clean, and I spend most of my time being scattered and lazy.
- I AM SO UNPRODUCTIVE that it burns.
- I forget where I put my money and am at a loss on where that $500 went at the end of the month. I forget I even have bills to pay at times.

Don't even get me started on the hypochondria.

So what if I ace all my exams without putting in any effort? It's like I can't handle reality, which is just a little bit MORE important than exams. I don't think Sensors have these problems. I'm sure they have their own problems, but I test as a Sensor, and dammit, I think it's a great way to be. I get tired of the "Sensors are dumb" garbage, myself.

Hrm... I aced all my exams too back then at high school and university, also without putting in much effort. I really wouldn't want to link this with N/S. It's probably more IQ-related or something. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I used a different method than you for aceing the exams, you being a Ne-dom and me being ST type.

As for your list, nice honesty.

I relate to a couple of items on it:

What kind of stuff do you have issues with memorizing? I can't memorize text word by word for the life of me (well I can, if I put a lot of effort into it but MEH). I mainly remember the logical structure and the meaning of the text: this is not necessarily in some intuitive way, I just rephrase the sentences without doing big picture by any kind of crazy out-of-the box thinking;

I'm also lazy until the deadline is up... and currently unproductive too :/ Yeah disorganized apartment too.

My suggestion for fixing the problem with forgetting items, develop a habit of putting things in the same place every time. With the umbrella and bags when traveling, always have them on your arm or have them in contact with your body in other some way when you're sitting down.

I'd have suggestions for the other issues too but I realize that most of them stem from your N preference so you'd have to have a big attention shift to fix them...

 

[infinite]

I also really don't like philosophical discussions. I just get so bored, and am like "ok, what is the practical application of this? What use is this? What is the point?". A lot of the time it gets wound up in defining things and the semantics of a word like "time" or whatever. Who the fuck cares. I don't. I don't care about that level of minutia and I want no part of it. It's annoying and way too much work. I get annoyed with the fact that stuff which is basically self evident gets questioned and I have to sit there and pick it apart. It's mentally a ton of work and I get zero enjoyment out of it. Do I exist? Pft. Ok, you can go talk about that. I'm not going down that semantic hell hole. Fun to think about, not to discuss most of the time. I'll enjoy philsophical discussions when they are more wholistic and there is more of an understanding/common ground.

Interesting. My problem with that kind of philosophy is a bit different from yours; I think the concepts they are using are often wrong, not anchored properly to reality. That's how I shoot down most of the ideas. Oh and another way I shoot down the kind of philosophy that's more like mental masturbation is when I see things that people have thought about like a billion times before without actually getting anywhere. And yeah that's also because they are going the wrong way about it. Nothing special about that sort of speculation and when I see it for the umpteenth time I'm definitely very bored with it. Otoh, I don't mind self-evident stuff being questioned as long as it's done in a sensible way. I don't find any of it a "ton of work", well it can be mentally tiring a bit after a while but other than that, I actually work very well with abstraction, this is an ability I developed at the age of 18-20; but I just don't have the inclination to do it all day or whatever. I periodically get interested in stuff like that, sensible philosophizing, philosophy of sciences, interpretations of physics, biology and some computer science and mathematics stuff. Oh and the eternal favourite, certain areas of psychology. Note the bolded word? I guess it's the S preference :/ I get interested and then after a relatively short time - minutes or hours tops -, my attention's gone from these abstract areas. I find some Ni related stuff awesome but I just don't tend to spend all that much time on it...

Ni is definitely in play with how I think, but I don't apply it to stereotypical Ni things.

What do you apply it to?

 

[infinite]

The attitude that prevails is always the same, those with their will put forth.

Sense types are defined by a characteristic suppression of intuition, while intuitive types are defined by a characteristic suppression of sensation.

While sense types are guided merely by that which happens, intuitive types are the helmsman of humanity's advance.

Only most recently has the prevailing attitude shifted towards the laws of science, to guide ourselves merely by what exists, regardless of individual will and its subsidiary, the intellect.

Do you have a problem with science? Do you think science doesn't help the advance of humanity?

I don't understand what you mean by the last few words; did you actually mention individual will and intellect as opposed with laws of science?

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Hrm... I aced all my exams too back then at high school and university, also without putting in much effort. I really wouldn't want to link this with N/S. It's probably more IQ-related or something. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I used a different method than you for aceing the exams, you being a Ne-dom and me being ST type.

All I know is that Ne+Ti is famous for doing this, and I exhibit this stereotype myself.

What kind of stuff do you have issues with memorizing? I can't memorize text word by word for the life of me (well I can, if I put a lot of effort into it but MEH). I mainly remember the logical structure and the meaning of the text: this is not necessarily in some intuitive way, I just rephrase the sentences without doing big picture by any kind of crazy out-of-the box thinking;

It's more like, I just can't be bothered. The details evade me. Like I'm learning a foreign language right now, and for the life of me I can't be bothered to memorize vocab since it seems like "boring details". So, I learn the overall structure of the language, and then am stuck asking for translations of words many times over. It's sad.

I'm also lazy until the deadline is up... and currently unproductive too :/ Yeah disorganized apartment too.

Pe-dom my friend. I'm the stereotype of the xNxP slob, I dunno if there's a Sensing equivalent.

My suggestion for fixing the problem with forgetting items, develop a habit of putting things in the same place every time. With the umbrella and bags when traveling, always have them on your arm or have them in contact with your body in other some way when you're sitting down.

The problem is "developing the habit". It's like I need my mom standing over me, telling me what to do. I just don't have that sort of awareness of my environment that would even draw it to mind while trying to form a habit.

I'd have suggestions for the other issues too but I realize that most of them stem from your N preference so you'd have to have a big attention shift to fix them...

Yeah, I've tried stuff. It's just always gonna be a weak area for me. I've accepted it.

 

[WALMART]

Do you have a problem with science? Do you think science doesn't help the advance of humanity?

I don't understand what you mean by the last few words; did you actually mention individual will and intellect as opposed with laws of science?

No, I don't have a problem with science at all (opposite of a problem, really). Perhaps my post isn't the easiest to interpret...

Yes, individual will and intellect greatly override the sensations provided by environment. On that front, Descartes was partially correct - "I think, therefore I am." Maybe closer to, "I think, therefore it is."

 

[entropie]

Most intuitives dont know much about their true power

 

[The Great One]

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's...

Intuitive type descriptions may have been sugarcoated or exaggerated, but so may sensor type descriptions be...
[MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION], could you please make a comparison of one intuitive type description and one sensor type description and put forward how one is exaggerated and the other isn't...or how one is mentioned as mundane/common/ordinary and the other as extraordinary?

ex·traor·di·nary adjective : very unusual : very different from what is normal or ordinary... are intuitives extraordinary (eccentric) or not?

It's mostly on the forums where intuitives are normally overly-glorified.

 

[infinite]

No, I don't have a problem with science at all (opposite of a problem, really). Perhaps my post isn't the easiest to interpret...

Hmm okay. I did ask because it wasn't clear to me

Yes, individual will and intellect greatly override the sensations provided by environment. On that front, Descartes was partially correct - "I think, therefore I am." Maybe closer to, "I think, therefore it is."

Interesting.

All I know is that Ne+Ti is famous for doing this, and I exhibit this stereotype myself.

But I guess in your case it was that you managed to make up the right answers..? I just went through the material very fast, processing and understanding it all in a limited amount of time

It's more like, I just can't be bothered. The details evade me. Like I'm learning a foreign language right now, and for the life of me I can't be bothered to memorize vocab since it seems like "boring details". So, I learn the overall structure of the language, and then am stuck asking for translations of words many times over. It's sad.

Heh learning the vocabulary of a new language is tricky, I don't see it as an S/N issue really. I believe in a natural context based learning of the vocab. No need to do rote memorization that way. Though my most efficient method does involve a bit of rote memorizing but it's not as bad as it sounds, it's kept at a minimum.

Btw I'm just like you there, I learn the structure first (grammar stuff etc). I can't put together a sentence's meaning or create sentences effortlessly if I don't have the structure learned yet. I'm totally extreme with this, I know many people don't give a rat's ass about structure, they just pick up a few words from communication then guess meaning of sentences and just try to put together some makeshift sentences. I do none of that...

Pe-dom my friend. I'm the stereotype of the xNxP slob, I dunno if there's a Sensing equivalent.

I don't see a lot of difference here between Ne and Se tbh

The problem is "developing the habit". It's like I need my mom standing over me, telling me what to do. I just don't have that sort of awareness of my environment that would even draw it to mind while trying to form a habit.

I see. Interesting. I can be immersed in thoughts or something but I still have this instinct active that makes me pay attention when I need to. That has to be S/N difference? I have the attention in my case because I actually care enough about the stuff in reality. I guess you care more about your ideas or whatever and it's less frustrating to you if you e.g. lose a bag?

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

But I guess in your case it was that you managed to make up the right answers..? I just went through the material very fast, processing and understanding it all in a limited amount of time

Yeah, in my case it was all about inventing stuff and covering up the fact that I didn't actually know what I was talking about.

Heh learning the vocabulary of a new language is tricky, I don't see it as an S/N issue really. I believe in a natural context based learning of the vocab. No need to do rote memorization that way. Though my most efficient method does involve a bit of rote memorizing but it's not as bad as it sounds, it's kept at a minimum.

I see it as a detail thing in my case, though memorization is a pain for anyone regardless of type.

Btw I'm just like you there, I learn the structure first (grammar stuff etc). I can't put together a sentence's meaning or create sentences effortlessly if I don't have the structure learned yet. I'm totally extreme with this, I know many people don't give a rat's ass about structure, they just pick up a few words from communication then guess meaning of sentences and just try to put together some makeshift sentences. I do none of that...

Me too. Boy, I can't be one of those parrots that throws out gibberish. I have to understand what it is I'm saying, or else I can't articulate; my brain just starts pulling it apart and trying to find the pattern regardless of whether anyone tells it to me. This ability (I call it ability, though it isn't always seen that way) is apparently exceptionally rare. My teacher got pissed at me at the beginning because I would sit silently trying to put my thoughts into a logical grammar structure rather than just say gibberish. He'd be like "JUST SAY SOMETHING". I am incapable of just saying "words". But it's benefited me as I've advanced because I am intelligible and haven't fossilized a bunch of non-grammatical idiosyncracies, unlike many others who didn't take the time to work out the structure as they went.

I don't see a lot of difference here between Ne and Se tbh

It may be.

I see. Interesting. I can be immersed in thoughts or something but I still have this instinct active that makes me pay attention when I need to. That has to be S/N difference? I have the attention in my case because I actually care enough about the stuff in reality. I guess you care more about your ideas or whatever and it's less frustrating to you if you e.g. lose a bag?

It is an S/N difference. I am so stupid I walk into stuff. Then have no idea how my legs have all these random bruises. It's no less frustrating me to lose things--I habitually trash my surroundings further in a rage wondering where all my crap went. I don't even care about my ideas more than my stuff, I don't take note of it when I set it down I guess. I assume this is an N thing.

 

[infinite]

I see it as a detail thing in my case

Yet you were able to learn the vocabulary of your native language

Me too. Boy, I can't be one of those parrots that throws out gibberish. I have to understand what it is I'm saying, or else I can't articulate; my brain just starts pulling it apart and trying to find the pattern regardless of whether anyone tells it to me. This ability (I call it ability, though it isn't always seen that way) is apparently exceptionally rare. My teacher got pissed at me at the beginning because I would sit silently trying to put my thoughts into a logical grammar structure rather than just say gibberish. He'd be like "JUST SAY SOMETHING". I am incapable of just saying "words". But it's benefited me as I've advanced because I am intelligible and haven't fossilized a bunch of non-grammatical idiosyncracies, unlike many others who didn't take the time to work out the structure as they went.

Hmm did you see an explicit claim that this ability is exceptionally rare? I'm not debating your claim, I actually find it interesting and would like to know more about what it's based on.

I may be an even more extreme case because I could not even understand a lot of sentences without first getting the structure of the entire language that I was learning. Even when I knew all words in one sentence, I sometimes could not put it together. Well, more like I would not spend effort on it, I simply saw it the sentence as too ambiguous in those cases. That sort of thing just totally turns me off, it would have needed too much effort to cognitively shift my focus in a way I usually don't do. Getting to see the structure of such sentences instantly made it non-ambiguous and then I could deal with it easily. Actually, just by learning the grammar stuff, my reading skills went up by like several hundred percents... I could even figure out the meaning of some unfamiliar words based on the structure of sentences. I almost tangibly saw these structures when reading sentences. I wonder if you did that as well? Seeing them like that? Over time it faded btw, it's all subconscious now; access to the language is very automatic and thus not conscious.

It is an S/N difference. I am so stupid I walk into stuff. Then have no idea how my legs have all these random bruises. It's no less frustrating me to lose things--I habitually trash my surroundings further in a rage wondering where all my crap went. I don't even care about my ideas more than my stuff, I don't take note of it when I set it down I guess. I assume this is an N thing.

Hmmm yeah the latter I guess is because you're off to idea-land

Btw I will admit to being somewhat resistant to conditioning wrt some things myself, such as getting to bed early enough if I know I have to get up early. I know I will be terribly sleepy in the morning if I don't go to bed in time. That is pretty frustrating to me. Yet I can't take this definite outcome in the near future seriously enough, it doesn't make me go to bed in time, I'm just not getting conditioned by the bad consequences in this case

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Yeah they're overrated, and S types underrated. Descriptions are hugely tilted to favor some types over others, and intutivies are by and large made to seem a lot more special, talented, and intelligent than their S counter parts. I'd say INFJ's (and to a lesser extent ENFJ's) are the worst in this regard.

It's unfair and annoying.

Agree. It creates often unrealistic expectations for people of these types. If they don't excel or shine as xNxx, they're probably going to get pretty down on themselves. Type descriptions be damned.

 

[Infinite Bubble]

What we call sensing is the more common configuration for the human brain to be in. Typically sensing rejects or is weary of unfounded abstract information. Therefore, one will find that intuition is on the whole, underrated.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Yet you were able to learn the vocabulary of your native language

Amazing, right? I didn't even have to memorize vocab lists.

Hmm did you see an explicit claim that this ability is exceptionally rare? I'm not debating your claim, I actually find it interesting and would like to know more about what it's based on.

No, I said that more out of exaggeration. I will say, though, that MANY people seem to find it annoying that I'm not capable of just throwing random words out. This leads me to think that most people probably DON'T need to structure it.

I may be an even more extreme case because I could not even understand a lot of sentences without first getting the structure of the entire language that I was learning. Even when I knew all words in one sentence, I sometimes could not put it together. Well, more like I would not spend effort on it, I simply saw it the sentence as too ambiguous in those cases. That sort of thing just totally turns me off, it would have needed too much effort to cognitively shift my focus in a way I usually don't do. Getting to see the structure of such sentences instantly made it non-ambiguous and then I could deal with it easily. Actually, just by learning the grammar stuff, my reading skills went up by like several hundred percents... I could even figure out the meaning of some unfamiliar words based on the structure of sentences. I almost tangibly saw these structures when reading sentences. I wonder if you did that as well? Seeing them like that? Over time it faded btw, it's all subconscious now; access to the language is very automatic and thus not conscious.

I don't quite see the structures, but I can definitely relate to not understanding a jumble of words put together without dissecting the grammar. It's an acquired skill in my case.

Hmmm yeah the latter I guess is because you're off to idea-land

Btw I will admit to being somewhat resistant to conditioning wrt some things myself, such as getting to bed early enough if I know I have to get up early. I know I will be terribly sleepy in the morning if I don't go to bed in time. That is pretty frustrating to me. Yet I can't take this definite outcome in the near future seriously enough, it doesn't make me go to bed in time, I'm just not getting conditioned by the bad consequences in this case

I thought that was a sx-first thing.

 

[Cimarron]

There, there, don't be too hard on yourselves, amigos.

 

[WhoCares]

I love being an intuitive becUse for me,its effortless thinking. Sure it comes to its fair share of wrong conclusions but at least I didnt bust a neuron getting there. I'm fundamentally lazy and thinking seauentially hurts my brain and uses energy. I just like letting shit float in and spit our some kind of outcome at a random hour. And this lack of needing to notice stuff just frees up my time for doing something fun like making stuff.

I dont think intuition is overrated at all. In the main I like being painfully unaware of real life. On the few occassions I have been aware of RL it sucked.

 

[five sounds]

HITLER WAS AN INTUITIVE.

-------------------

That aside, I kind of agree. The first time I took the Myers-Briggs so many years ago, I tested as a Sensor because Intuitive questions seemed very la-dee-da, spacey, and impractical. Yuck, I'm not like THAT.

Problem is, I actually am like that. And I'd agree, I'm kinda worthless. Like,

- I chronically forget valuable items such as my umbrella, bag, and/or keys, multiple times every day.
- I can't memorize worth shit.
- I walk into random furniture and get all these random bruises without even knowing how it happened.
- I forget I'm hungry, feverish, whatever.
- I walk around so lost in fantasy that I'm oblivious to myself and others.
- I habitually over-estimate my odds ("I can eat, shower, get everything ready and make it to the airport in just one hour!").
- I habitually pop out with nonsense that no one else understands, and I spent the better part of my childhood being laughed at and rejected for being "different".
- I become inflexibly sure things happened that didn't actually happen and get myself in trouble for acting on this.
- I can't keep my room clean, and I spend most of my time being scattered and lazy.
- I AM SO UNPRODUCTIVE that it burns.
- I forget where I put my money and am at a loss on where that $500 went at the end of the month. I forget I even have bills to pay at times.

Don't even get me started on the hypochondria.

So what if I ace all my exams without putting in any effort? It's like I can't handle reality, which is just a little bit MORE important than exams. I don't think Sensors have these problems. I'm sure they have their own problems, but I test as a Sensor, and dammit, I think it's a great way to be. I get tired of the "Sensors are dumb" garbage, myself.

I mean I like being Ne-dom (despite everything), but I fail to see why Intuitives are made out to be "smarter". I'm one of those academically "smart" people who's actually dumb.

i relate to this so much. i love being an Ne dom too, but it's not without its drawbacks

 

[Amargith]

Pretty much.