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Thread: Intuitives are overrated

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    You are distorting my words...where did I say superior? Why being pseudo-psychic is superior? When and when not?
    Do you NOT think that being psychic would be superior? I would think that general consensus would show that superhuman looks better than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Where did I say they are more intelligent? Show to me.
    I was thinking of the below post -- however, I failed to read it correctly. Apologies.
    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    When someone or a research says intuitives have a higher propensity for higher potential in certain intelligences, one has to accept it as a reality (notwithstanding the accuracy of the research or lack thereof).

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  2. #52
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Do you NOT think that being psychic would be superior? I would think that general consensus would show that superhuman looks better than human.

    I was thinking of the below post -- however, I failed to read it correctly. Apologies.
    Instinctively kowing what people think about you, automatically reading it on their faces and caring about it...not always a good thing when the silent feedback is negative...

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Instinctively kowing what people think about you, automatically reading it on their faces and caring about it...not always a good thing when the silent feedback is negative...
    True. And I understand that from having so many INFJs in my life -- the constant processing and cog-turning seems stressful and exhausting a lot of the time.

    However, you're describing it reasonably, whereas using overblown words like "psychic" is part of the problem with the descriptions I and others have been describing.

    Here's an example from typelogic.com:

    Quote Originally Posted by on INFJs
    Their amazing ability to deduce the inner workings of the mind, will and emotions of others gives INFJs their reputation as prophets and seers.
    In contrast (same website):

    Quote Originally Posted by on ISTJs
    Punctuality is a watchword of the ISTJ. The secretary, clerk, or business(wo)man by whom others set their clocks is likely to be an ISTJ.
    I knew an ISFJ -- artsy and progressive and boundary-pushing -- who was so deeply offended by ISFJ descriptions, similar to the above ISTJ snippet, that she swore off the MBTI altogether. She thought it described her as being like a closed-minded old lady who takes casseroles to church every Sunday and works at a reception desk. I believe the description she referred to was from this same site?

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    you?


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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    You are taking this from a viewpoint of some kind of inferiority complex and turning it around as if mentioning this research is intended as an insult to non-intuitives.

    When someone or a research says intuitives have a higher propensity for higher potential in certain intelligences, one has to accept it as a reality (notwithstanding the accuracy of the research or lack thereof). I won't deliberately look for opportunities to mention this out of context at every opportunity to belittle others, but OTOH I won't refrain from mentioning it so that others won't feel bad about their type if it serves to support or refute an argument.

    I am still waiting for the OP to point out how N type definitions are overrated and non-N type definitions are not.
    Perhaps there's a bit of an inferiority complex, hard to say, but I don't think that was really the point I was trying to make.

    I was questioning the Stats/research itself, and the fact that the Stats aren't terribly meaningful if people self-report as INxx or N *because* they're good at such things as aptitude tests and then think that means they're N. To be honest, the Aptitude/IQ thing is frequently used to fluff up N's feathers -- it's been used repeatedly on the forum. It actually is a good example of what the OP is asserting about N's online, tbh... this tendency to do so, as tied to N=intelligence.

    I guess I'd ask you... what was YOUR purpose in bringing up this particular set of stats in this thread? What are you trying to articulate/demonstrate?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Perhaps there's a bit of an inferiority complex, hard to say, but I don't think that was really the point I was trying to make.

    I was questioning the Stats/research itself, and the fact that the Stats aren't terribly meaningful if people self-report as INxx or N *because* they're good at such things as aptitude tests and then think that means they're N. To be honest, the Aptitude/IQ thing is frequently used to fluff up N's feathers -- it's been used repeatedly on the forum. It actually is a good example of what the OP is asserting about N's online, tbh... this tendency to do so, as tied to N=intelligence.

    I guess I'd ask you... what was YOUR purpose in bringing up this particular set of stats in this thread? What are you trying to articulate/demonstrate?
    This is the second time I was asked about this in this thread. There must be some underlying pattern behind it.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post2305260

  6. #56
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Here's an example from typelogic.com:

    Quote Originally Posted by on INFJs
    Their amazing ability to deduce the inner workings of the mind, will and emotions of others gives INFJs their reputation as prophets and seers.
    In contrast (same website):

    Quote Originally Posted by on ISTJs
    Punctuality is a watchword of the ISTJ. The secretary, clerk, or business(wo)man by whom others set their clocks is likely to be an ISTJ?
    Compare these two set of traits:

    What are the common characteristics of prophets? | Institute in Basic Life Principles

    INFJ strengths and weaknesses | 16 Personality Types

    As a sidenote, while growing up, I've aspired to the characteristics of the prophets as they are (ideally) described in holy books...There was of course a more primitive drive behind all that. To be perfect (as the idealized versions of the prophets) so as to secure love (basically from parents). I couldn't reach the ideal and it collapsed on me.

    Also about the seer thing, I think it has connections to the holy scripts of the past:

    A prophet is a seer, which implies that the basic nature of his commission is characterised by observation and watchfulness. There is no element of the spiritistic in the Hebrew concept. There is no element of fortune-telling implied. Shamanistic connotations may not be added. Shamanistic methods and techniques belong to another, entirely different kingdom. Trance states and altered states of consciousness belong to the realm of magic and is a sign of the flesh in charge and in operation.

    The practices of the diviner is, and has to be, sharply renounced and rebuked by a true seer. Prediction for the sake of establishing a track record, for the sake of seeming to be able to know and to have been divinely commissioned, is no valid evidence of the prophetic. Predictions does not substantiate claims of representing Heaven.

    The Seer represents the prophetic dimension by means of his ability to observe, by his inclination towards watchfulness. He is the watchman, the protector. He walks the narrow paths of the border areas of the Kingdom, drawing strength for this isolated work of defence from the vivid visions and experiences of the heartlands of God's domains. The prophet's home is a Mizpah, a watchtower, a place for proper judgment and discernment, 1 Samuel 7:6.
    Of Watchmen and Seers: A few notes about ‘offices’ of Prophets | Judah's Glory Blog

    Seer

    Anyway, I agree that those descriptions sound as if telling about a superhuman of some kind... The thing is that they should be read as describing someone with a relatively higher inclination for such abilities and practices, which have nothing to do with special powers but, I believe, with the individual's central nervous system and brain activity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    What's the prevailing attitude in your society? Would you explain more about your reasoning?
    The attitude that prevails is always the same, those with their will put forth.

    Sense types are defined by a characteristic suppression of intuition, while intuitive types are defined by a characteristic suppression of sensation.

    While sense types are guided merely by that which happens, intuitive types are the helmsman of humanity's advance.

    Only most recently has the prevailing attitude shifted towards the laws of science, to guide ourselves merely by what exists, regardless of individual will and its subsidiary, the intellect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Anyway, I agree that those descriptions sound as if telling about a superhuman of some kind... The thing is that they should be read as describing someone with a relatively higher inclination for such abilities and practices, which have nothing to do with special powers but, I believe, with the individual's central nervous system and brain activity.
    I would argue that it shouldn't be necessary to explain how they SHOULD be read. The phrasing is problematic enough that it has created this entire debate -- which is confusing and frustrating for newbies and experienced armchair-typologists alike. I know from experience, with the ISFJ I mentioned and with others, that descriptions like that can 1) put people off of the MBTI entirely (on one extreme), and 2) make people unduly arrogant about their own type (on another extreme).

    Take this as another example, from the thread relating to the "ENTJ, Destroyer of Worlds" article in The Onion:

    Quote Originally Posted by andante
    Was that a parody? Some online ENTJs really do say shit like this seriously which makes me cringe and want to tear them a new one. :shudders:
    They wouldn't say things like that if they weren't misinterpreting type descriptions -- and if type descriptions didn't frequently spin ENTJs in a particular way, then they wouldn't say things like that quite so frequently.

    (Andante, I hope you don't mind that I quoted you here -- the aim was constructive.)

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  9. #59
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I would argue that it shouldn't be necessary to explain how they SHOULD be read. The phrasing is problematic enough that it has created this entire debate -- which is confusing and frustrating for newbies and experienced armchair-typologists alike. I know from experience, with the ISFJ I mentioned and with others, that descriptions like that can 1) put people off of the MBTI entirely (on one extreme), and 2) make people unduly arrogant about their own type (on another extreme).

    Take this as another example, from the thread relating to the "ENTJ, Destroyer of Worlds" article in The Onion:

    They wouldn't say things like that if they weren't misinterpreting type descriptions -- and if type descriptions didn't frequently spin ENTJs in a particular way, then they wouldn't say things like that quite so frequently.

    (Andante, I hope you don't mind that I quoted you here -- the aim was constructive.)
    Next time you see your friend you may suggest her to use this site... Their type descriptions are more evenhanded. If she still feels offended by it, there must be something wrong in her typing.

    I personally like this site's descriptions better:

    ISFJ personality | 16 Personality Types

    About the ENTJ thing, an ENTJ would not brag about himself\herself in word but in deed, which brings me to the fact that there are many people who are mistyped.

    Check this ENTJ description for instance ENTJ personality | 16 Personality Types

    People should learn to discern between good and bad type descriptions and stop reacting to certain types of people based on those descriptions, a good type description being one that moves away from mystification and towards rationalization.

    I do not condone bragging about one's type or using type to belittle people. Our typing represent our inclinations, preferences and things that we give more weight to in expense of others. So each type has strong and weak suits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by applebite View Post
    While sense types are guided merely by that which happens, intuitive types are the helmsman of humanity's advance.

    Only most recently has the prevailing attitude shifted towards the laws of science, to guide ourselves merely by what exists, regardless of individual will and its subsidiary, the intellect.
    This is incorrect and shows a misunderstanding of what Sensing really is.

    I admit to not having the most detailed understanding of Se, and would ask that those with better understanding be the ones to step forward here -- however I have a very good understanding of Si, and can safely say that Si has little to do with "what exists". It has to do with what you remember, what you know from past experience, what you have absorbed from any number of sources and consolidated to create your general worldview. I have said elsewhere on the forum and will say here as well that I am absolutely horrible at living "in the moment" -- 99% of the time, my mind has wandered to what I need to do, what will happen ten minutes from now, a day from now, years and years in advance -- or it has wandered back to things I have done, or witnessed, in the past. I'm about as bad with "sensing" as it relates to bodily needs as any average N on this forum.

    As for S/N and the "advancement of humanity" -- you need only look at type descriptions, even biased ones, to find Sensors who have strived for that same advancement. SJs, for example, are very frequently the ones who call the emperor out for having no clothes, or who strive against injustice in some other form. More proof that the stereotype of SJs always being "establishmentarian" is incorrect. They are for whatever moral code they have found that they believe is the most "right" -- whether it be their family's, the establishment's, or something else they've found.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


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