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  1. #1
    Junior Member Mr Nobody's Avatar
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    Question S.O.S

    Ok so I'm an INFP new to mbti. based on Jungian Cognitive Function Test my functions are as followed :
    Ni Ne Te Fi Fe Si Ti Se. which resemble an INTJ with developed Ne. And I can't possibly be T or J... because I just don't match the descriptions. I'm also 4w5 5w4 1w2 (The Researcher) on the enneagram (not sure about the instinctual variant). Can someone please shed some light on this self-conflicting soul ?
    We have gone sick.

    By following a path of untrammeled rationalism,
    Male dominance,
    Attention to the visible surface of things,
    Practicality,
    Bottom line-ism.
    We have gone very very sick.

    INTJ 4w5 5w4 9w1 Sx/So Neutral Good Johari Nohari
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Opal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Nobody View Post
    Ok so I'm an INFP new to mbti. based on Jungian Cognitive Function Test my functions are as followed :
    Ni Ne Te Fi Fe Si Ti Se. which resemble an INTJ with developed Ne. And I can't possibly be T or J... because I just don't match the descriptions. I'm also 4w5 5w4 1w2 (The Researcher) on the enneagram (not sure about the instinctual variant). Can someone please shed some light on this self-conflicting soul ?
    Which parts of the Thinking type descriptions don't fit? Assuming your fourth cognitive function is your dominant one seems a stretch.

    How well do you understand Thinking and Feeling within the MBTI framework?

  3. #3
    Junior Member Mr Nobody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solipsists View Post
    Which parts of the Thinking type descriptions don't fit? Assuming your fourth cognitive function is your dominant one seems a stretch.
    Well I'm imaginative, idealistic and emotionally expressive. But I'm also in search of truth most of the time.
    Not truth that suits my emotional dispositions or the truth conceived by logic. but the truth that transcends both. You could say I look for meaning... Specially for patterns. I love interconnected patterns of behavior.
    and most of the time I can see it. Really deep impersonal meaning... I'm in love with analytic psychology, fantasy/sci-fi movies and deep music. I also live an undisciplined life with usually no schedule or plans...
    We have gone sick.

    By following a path of untrammeled rationalism,
    Male dominance,
    Attention to the visible surface of things,
    Practicality,
    Bottom line-ism.
    We have gone very very sick.

    INTJ 4w5 5w4 9w1 Sx/So Neutral Good Johari Nohari
    Likes Himeko009 liked this post

  4. #4
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Nobody View Post
    Well I'm imaginative, idealistic and emotionally expressive. But I'm also in search of truth most of the time.
    Not truth that suits my emotional dispositions or the truth conceived by logic. but the truth that transcends both. You could say I look for meaning... Specially for patterns. I love interconnected patterns of behavior.
    and most of the time I can see it. Really deep impersonal meaning... I'm in love with analytic psychology, fantasy/sci-fi movies and deep music. I also live an undisciplined life with usually no schedule or plans...
    The highlighted describes many INTJs; some also INTPs, especially the search for impersonal truth. INTP is also more likely to eschew schedules/plans.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  5. #5
    Junior Member Mr Nobody's Avatar
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    The highlighted describes many INTJs; some also INTPs, especially the search for impersonal truth. INTP is also more likely to eschew schedules/plans.
    Which is more likely? being an INTJ with a highly developed Ne and least developed Se. being an INTP with Ti being my seventh function or INFP with a really developed Ni?
    We have gone sick.

    By following a path of untrammeled rationalism,
    Male dominance,
    Attention to the visible surface of things,
    Practicality,
    Bottom line-ism.
    We have gone very very sick.

    INTJ 4w5 5w4 9w1 Sx/So Neutral Good Johari Nohari

  6. #6
    Senior Member Eluded_One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Nobody View Post
    Well I'm imaginative, idealistic and emotionally expressive. But I'm also in search of truth most of the time.
    Not truth that suits my emotional dispositions or the truth conceived by logic. but the truth that transcends both. You could say I look for meaning... Specially for patterns. I love interconnected patterns of behavior.
    and most of the time I can see it. Really deep impersonal meaning... I'm in love with analytic psychology, fantasy/sci-fi movies and deep music. I also live an undisciplined life with usually no schedule or plans...
    80% of what you said above also describes how I am, except the imaginative and the deep impersonal meaning part (even if they're seen patterns of behavior). It's difficult for me to put the word deep and impersonal in the same sentence. However, that doesn't necessarily point you to being an INFP. The most important issue, is if you use Fi to make your decisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Nobody View Post
    or INFP with a really developed Ni?
    In my opinion, I do not believe this is possible. There's been discussions and debate on this forum as to why there are no borderline types. You might want to check this thread out to clarify things: Borderline Type's are a Myth

    One other thing - tests such as Jungian Cognitive Function Test might confuse you even more. It's only a test until you put it to actual real-life application.
    “If you worry about what might be, and wonder what might have been, you will ignore what is.” -anonymous

  7. #7
    Junior Member Mr Nobody's Avatar
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    I guess I can settle for INTx for now. Tnx for the help.
    We have gone sick.

    By following a path of untrammeled rationalism,
    Male dominance,
    Attention to the visible surface of things,
    Practicality,
    Bottom line-ism.
    We have gone very very sick.

    INTJ 4w5 5w4 9w1 Sx/So Neutral Good Johari Nohari

  8. #8
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Nobody View Post
    Well I'm imaginative, idealistic and emotionally expressive. But I'm also in search of truth most of the time.
    Not truth that suits my emotional dispositions or the truth conceived by logic. but the truth that transcends both. You could say I look for meaning... Specially for patterns. I love interconnected patterns of behavior.
    and most of the time I can see it. Really deep impersonal meaning... I'm in love with analytic psychology, fantasy/sci-fi movies and deep music. I also live an undisciplined life with usually no schedule or plans...
    If I had to go with a type from this description, it would be INFP, especially the part about searching for meaning, being idealistic/emotionally expressive, perceiving outward interconnected patterns, and living a very externally unstructured lifestyle.
    Reserved Calm Unstructured Egocentric Inquisitive Clown

    Johari Nohari

  9. #9
    Junior Member Mr Nobody's Avatar
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    Well it just happens that I have a very developed tertiary function (Fi) which is probably because of my dad being an ESFP (Nurture). When I look at my self closely, I never seek consensus, harmony doesn't matter that much to me and I enjoy intellectual pursuits as long as they involve the bigger picture and take into account all the aspects of being human. But yes I also have high ideals for both myself and society in general, I imagine how it would be like to live in worlds with more advanced culture (or the absence of it). I can also express my emotions whenever I want to and never had a sarcastic conversation with anyone in my whole life. I can settle with INTJ overall.
    We have gone sick.

    By following a path of untrammeled rationalism,
    Male dominance,
    Attention to the visible surface of things,
    Practicality,
    Bottom line-ism.
    We have gone very very sick.

    INTJ 4w5 5w4 9w1 Sx/So Neutral Good Johari Nohari

  10. #10
    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
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    Dario Nardi's one of the leading cognitive functions guys (as you probably know), and his keys2cognition test (which you may well have taken) is arguably the most-linked-to cognitive functions test but, as further discussed in the next spoiler, INTJs typically get high Ni scores and high Ne scores (with Ni not substantially favored over Ne), and high Te scores and high Ti scores (with Te not substantially favored over Ti), when they take Nardi's test — and INFJs often get Fi scores that are as high or higher than their Fe scores.


    As I understand it, there isn't a single function-based test on or off the internet on which INTJs reliably get high Ni and Te scores and low Ti and Ne scores and INTPs reliably get high Ti and Ne scores and low Ni and Te scores — never mind scoring the third and fourth functions in a way that matches the model. I'm theoretically an "Ni-dom," but Te and Ti were my two highest scores on Nardi's test.

    And what functions model should a good test be matching, anyway? Myers acknowledged that the majority of Jung scholars believed (rightly, IMHO) that Jung's model for a Ti-dom with an N auxiliary was Ti-Ni-Se-Fe. Myers' model was Ti-Ne-Se-Fe — although, as explained in my last linked post (below), Myers, despite some lip service to the contrary, essentially (and to her credit) abandoned the functions for the dichotomies. Harold Grant's model — followed by Berens and Nardi and most of the other modern functions theorists — was Ti-Ne-Si-Fe.

    That last model is the one most often subscribed to by internet forumites, which is why you'll often read posts that say that INTJs and INTPs (or INFJs and INFPs) may share three letters but, pfffft, they've got almost nothing in common because, when you go from J to P, it flips all your functions! Buuut... I'm here to tell you that "Am I INTJ or INTP?" is by far the most common torn-between-types dilemma encountered in type-me threads at INTJforum. And I often point that out to the function-flipping aficonados, and I say to them, "Listen! If INTJs and INTPs are so freaking different, why is there this endless parade of INTJforum posters who've read up on the MBTI (including the functions), read INTJ and INTP profiles, and ended up concluding (1) that they relate better to INTJ and INTP descriptions than any other types, and (2) that they relate pretty much equally well to INTJ and INTP?"

    And nobody ever has a good answer. And sometimes I ask them, "Hey, if INTJs and INTPs have no shared functions and their functions are as different as you say, how about doing what Nardi somehow failed to do and give me some Ni, Ne, Ti and Te descriptions that I can offer those poor type-me-please INTx's as a solution to their confusion. If they relate to your Ni and Te descriptions and don't relate to your Ti and Ne descriptions, we'll know they're INTJs, and if it's the other way around, we'll know they're INTPs."

    And guess what? Not one cognitive functions aficionado has even tried to rise to my challenge, although sometimes they stroke their chins and say something like, well, you know, the cognitive functions are incredibly deep and subtle and it's unrealistic to expect somebody to be able to describe them using something as crude as words.

    Meanwhile, in the land of real people and words and science and stuff...

    The four MBTI dichotomies, which substantially line up with four of the Big Five dimensions, now have decades of studies in support of their validity and reliability, while the cognitive functions — which James Reynierse (in a 2009 article linked to below) refers to as a "category mistake" — have barely been studied. And the reason they've barely been studied is that, unlike the dichotomies, they've never been taken seriously by any significant number of academic psychologists. Going all the way back to 1985, the MBTI Manual described or referred to somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,500 MBTI studies and, as I understand it, not one of the many study-based correlations reported in the manual were framed in terms of the functions. And many more dichotomy-based studies have been done in the years since. The third edition of the MBTI Manual was published in 1998 and, as Reynierse notes in that same article, it cited a grand total of eight studies involving "type dynamics" (i.e., the functions model) — which Reynierse summarizes as "six studies that failed, one with a questionable interpretation, and one where contradictory evidence was offered as support."

    Assuming you have reasonably well-defined preferences, I think you're more likely to correctly type yourself using dichotomy-based tests than tests (or analysis) based on the functions. And if you've got one or more preferences that are in or near the middle, I think dichotomy-based tests are more likely to correctly indicate that situation as well.

    If you've never been typed with the official "Step I" MBTI, it's here.

    Just in case you're interested — and only if you're interested — in more from me on the place of the functions (or lack thereof) in the MBTI's history and the tremendous gap between the dichotomies and the functions in terms of scientific respectability, you'll find it in this long INTJforum post.

    Links in INTJforum posts don't work if you're not a member, so here are replacements for two of the links in that post:

    McCrae & Costa article (click on the pic on the right to access the full article)
    Reynierse article

    Finally, in case they're of any use to you, I've put profile roundups for the four IN types in the next spoiler.

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