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  1. #1
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Default Fe-aux (INFJ & ISFJ) Socialization Issues

    My impression is that Fe-aux folks can have specific types of difficulty in relating socially because the Fe creates a strong need for connection, but the dominant introverted, perception function causes them to be more individualized and withdrawn. This can create an internal dichotomy, but also a less efficient way to establish connections than their extroverted Fe-dom counterparts. The Ni and Si doms can also detach either into nostalgia and the personal, experiential world of Si, or into the theoretical, imaginative, abstracted sense of Ni reality.

    Please disagree if this doesn't resonate, but I think that Fe-aux are at high risk of staying in unhealthy relationships and losing a sense of self in order to maintain peaceful connections. While it's true that I'm going through a personal rough patch right now, I am somewhat embarrassed to admit that when I read this list of socialization traits on a "recovering doormat" site, I realize that I am struggling with every single thing on this list.

    Part of the reason I get angry and push back when people berate INFJs and ISFJs is because I understand their tendency to internalize all of that sort of negativity. Then when I push back people just increase their criticisms rather than listening to context, rather than trying to understand that when you tell a Fe-aux something negative, it is like speaking those same words through a megaphone for most any other type. The words hold a different meaning and so become less accurate. Anyway, please disagree as needed.

    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #2
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    I agree that there's something going on with Fe-aux, and possibly also Fe-dom, but not to the same degree. I think this is worth exploring further to see what comes out of it.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  3. #3
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Please disagree if this doesn't resonate, but I think that Fe-aux are at high risk of staying in unhealthy relationships and losing a sense of self in order to maintain peaceful connections.
    I wouldn't stay in an unhealthy relationship for any reason.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    My impression is that Fe-aux folks can have specific types of difficulty in relating socially because the Fe creates a strong need for connection, but the dominant introverted, perception function causes them to be more individualized and withdrawn. This can create an internal dichotomy, but also a less efficient way to establish connections than their extroverted Fe-dom counterparts. The Ni and Si doms can also detach either into nostalgia and the personal, experiential world of Si, or into the theoretical, imaginative, abstracted sense of Ni reality.

    Please disagree if this doesn't resonate, but I think that Fe-aux are at high risk of staying in unhealthy relationships and losing a sense of self in order to maintain peaceful connections. While it's true that I'm going through a personal rough patch right now, I am somewhat embarrassed to admit that when I read this list of socialization traits on a "recovering doormat" site, I realize that I am struggling with every single thing on this list.

    Part of the reason I get angry and push back when people berate INFJs and ISFJs is because I understand their tendency to internalize all of that sort of negativity. Then when I push back people just increase their criticisms rather than listening to context, rather than trying to understand that when you tell a Fe-aux something negative, it is like speaking those same words through a megaphone for most any other type. The words hold a different meaning and so become less accurate. Anyway, please disagree as needed.
    Perhaps this is something that slowly gets better with age. Thing is that I personally have to become a worse person (from my point of view) by practicing this weak part of the personality. This is what destroyed my last 8 year long relationship, but at the same time it forced me into uncharted territory, and helped me get over the threshold so to speak. It is still extremely painful to set boundaries. I don't know if there is any good way to develop it. Have you had similar experience?

  5. #5
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geonat View Post
    Perhaps this is something that slowly gets better with age. Thing is that I personally have to become a worse person (from my point of view) by practicing this weak part of the personality. This is what destroyed my last 8 year long relationship, but at the same time it forced me into uncharted territory, and helped me get over the threshold so to speak. It is still extremely painful to set boundaries. I don't know if there is any good way to develop it. Have you had similar experience?
    Unfortunately I'm plenty old myself. It takes me a long time to figure out if I'm in a bad relationship because my empathy is overly strong, so I see the context from the other person's point of view as strongly as my own. It's a great skill in a professional context in which there are already hard boundaries, but it is difficult in personal scenarios. I am getting divorced for the second time, so I do figure out what doesn't work and eventually fix it, but it takes me a long time, and I don't have the same sort of will as most people. I don't have a natural self-ego investment that is easily angered or pushes back against people. My mind floats about seeing every scenario from every possible vantage point, so that I am processesing waaay too much information to readily come to conclusions. Then I easily feel sorry for people because I can feel their fear and pain so readily, that I tend to understand why they are crossing lines. This steals my normal anger response which makes it harder to process unhealthy dynamics.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nights and Days View Post
    I wouldn't stay in an unhealthy relationship for any reason.
    With kids one can become very compliant and absorb an enormous amount of that stuff just to keep the peace so that they can have both parents living under the same roof.

  7. #7
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geonat View Post
    With kids one can become very compliant and absorb an enormous amount of that stuff just to keep the peace so that they can have both parents living under the same roof.
    Be careful of who you have kids with.

  8. #8
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    I would suggest changing how you're thinking about your interactions with other people. Instead of seeing it as feeling sorry for them and the possible pain or discomfort you might put them through, try to see it as not wanting to feel your own discomfort at causing discomfort. It's uncomfortable to set good boundaries. Make some peace with that fact. You are going to feel discomfort and cause discomfort. That doesn't make you a bad person.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nights and Days View Post
    Be careful of who you have kids with.
    Why didn't you tell me eight years ago?
    ESFJ perhaps felt that I was an INTP (my bad) :-)

    Edit: Some of this may have contributed (ESFj & INFj):
    Illusionary relations between psychological ("personality") types

    Edit 2: Sorry, can't help associating - will restrain myself - but:
    ESFj and INTj = duality while
    ESFj and INTp = conflicting
    so if you happen to be INTP and unsure of whether you're INTj or INTp, just try interacting with an ESFJ(ESFj) and see what happens :-)
    (The general j/p vs J/P problem for introverts is addressed in a recent thread)
    Last edited by Geonat; 05-14-2014 at 01:49 PM. Reason: compulsive association

  10. #10
    Just a note... LittleV's Avatar
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    I was more like this growing up... but Fe would also allow for one to notice social patterns. While being exposed to information... the Si-user may ponder the most appropriate things to do within his/her cliche/institution/culture... and the Ni-user may ponder why these appropriate things were even appropriate within society/humanity/existence before being confronted with what to 'do'. Put these mechanisms in various contexts and you would get many different behaviors, ways of internalizing, natures of interpersonal relationships, etc.

    My relatives are very hands-on, practical, quick, domineering, loud, vulgar, entertaining, etc. It is almost as though I'd be an accommodating person who could seem too tolerant... yet be able to get her point across without ruffling too many feathers because of what she'd played with within her mind. There were times when I had to be the leader... being one of the older kids, make up games, etc. Simultaneously, I was very respectful of authority (even in disagreement)... and would at times be seen as shy. However, I cannot be/feel like myself when I am around people for too long; I'd begin to take on others' qualities within just a day... the main reason why I need boundaries. The only times when I am (albeit reluctantly) willing to be around someone more often is if I'd feel as though our energies were similar and/or I'd believe that there could be growth involved for everybody.

    People who meet me would not see me as shy at this point... but they may still wonder why I may seem sociable but not frequently involved in group activities. Some may work harder to get to know me (I am somewhat easy to approach) in an easygoing fashion... and others may consider me confusing and watch from a distance while trying to test me during interactions.

    Nonetheless... I would say that people tend to see me as many distinctive things... and I know I play a role in this. It is not often that I would try/want to explain myself to others, unless there were some type of genuine bond.

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