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  1. #1
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Default INFP + ESTP romance

    There was recently a thread about ENFP + ISTP couples & how odd it seems (given how it defies all type theories about both being intuitive or both Fi/Te or a P & J complement, etc).

    I've noticed the same phenomenon with INFP + ESTP. As an adult, I draw ESTPs a lot in dating, but I also quickly see the problem with it ever being long-term/serious. There is a weird draw hard to explain, because in many ways we're opposites, but not like how it is with ESTJs (who I have a much stronger gut reaction to, often negative).

    I know some INFPs around here are dating/have dated ESTPs, so add what you like to this. Bringing enneagram into this could be interesting also.

    The obvious draws are both having Pe mentalities (although INFPs are behaviorally Pe in a more subdued way). There's an exploratory approach to life. Then there's a possible shared interest in/appreciation for aesthetics, which will likely come from very different perspectives still. One being very much a doer & liver of life & the other a dreamer & more cerebral creates a "fascination" effect. The INFP may like the idea of such a person "handling" all the more physical aspects of reality (ie. making money, navigating the social realm, planning activities) without being controlled or suffocated, as they may fear a Te-dom would do; and the ESTP may like to leave the moral, spiritual & philosophical musings & higher brow taste to someone who isn't going to "nudge" them condescendingly like an NFJ might. On the surface, it may seem like "this person covers a blind spot without being a threat to my preferred style!".

    Anything else?
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #2
    Riva
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    Think it's a terrible match unless the ifp is one of thos ifps who can magically appreciate anyone. My manager is an estp cp6 and his wife is one of those 'if' types who sends love vibes even when he asks her whether she is stupid. Amazing.

    I haven't seen much of a need of emotional depth and bonding from estps (something i myself sufffers from). They do have charm and are tactful enough to 'show' love but infps would want something more (or do they?). Showing love is something an isfj would appreciate more.

    Infps really ned to appreciate the person i feel more so than the deed. Something like my manager's wife.

    However Ifps seem to place very few expectations on their partners which is appealing to most males. Taking care of day today activities and taking that extra mile would not be expected from ifps but be appreciated highly (me thinks).

    Wht do infps want from reltionships is a god thread topic that i might start if thinking of marrying one. Them being Ji doms which is more aware of feelings shoukd be ble to explin it.

    Typed all that as a possible 7w8

  3. #3
    Stansmith
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    In theory, INFp's are supposed to help ESTP's become more diplomatic and aware of the long-term implications of their actions (when it's best to act, which plan of action will lead to the best result, etc.), while ESTp's help INFp's spring into action and adjust to objective reality. I go under the assumption that INFP = INFp in this case, since it's unlikely that someone who identifies with the INFj description would feel much attraction towards ESTp's, being conflictors.

  4. #4
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    There was recently a thread about ENFP + ISTP couples & how odd it seems (given how it defies all type theories about both being intuitive or both Fi/Te or a P & J complement, etc).

    I've noticed the same phenomenon with INFP + ESTP. As an adult, I draw ESTPs a lot in dating, but I also quickly see the problem with it ever being long-term/serious. There is a weird draw hard to explain, because in many ways we're opposites, but not like how it is with ESTJs (who I have a much stronger gut reaction to, often negative).

    I know some INFPs around here are dating/have dated ESTPs, so add what you like to this. Bringing enneagram into this could be interesting also.


    The obvious draws are both having Pe mentalities (although INFPs are behaviorally Pe in a more subdued way). There's an exploratory approach to life. Then there's a possible shared interest in/appreciation for aesthetics, which will likely come from very different perspectives still. One being very much a doer & liver of life & the other a dreamer & more cerebral creates a "fascination" effect. The INFP may like the idea of such a person "handling" all the more physical aspects of reality (ie. making money, navigating the social realm, planning activities) without being controlled or suffocated, as they may fear a Te-dom would do; and the ESTP may like to leave the moral, spiritual & philosophical musings & higher brow taste to someone who isn't going to "nudge" them condescendingly like an NFJ might. On the surface, it may seem like "this person covers a blind spot without being a threat to my preferred style!".

    Anything else?
    @OrangeAppled --

    That can be a useful way to go; between the two of you, like Jack Sprat, who could eat no fat, and his wife, who could eat no lean, and so, between the two of them, they licked the platter clean -- there will be no area of human endeavor that one or the other of you can't handle out of mere pocket change, so to speak.

    Three difficulties, speaking with INTJ-patented Te-Hellfire-guided-missiles.

    1) how to handle your different "recharging" modes (& follow-on, how to re-thread the needle 'twixt the two of you when you are coming out of chrysalis mode & need to talk deep to feel connected with your SO over your insights, or he comes back from a social bender and wants to either wax ebulliently adventuresome or decompress with a whirlygig of lighter social fare which is still too draining for you)

    2) it depends on precisely what the relationship (or, if LTR / marriage, as you hinted might prove problematic), or the marriage, is going to be "about":
    what is the purpose, the shared unifying vision, of your life?

    3) What is your cognitive stack, how do you process incoming info and disgorge wisdom and communicate needs and intentions compared to an ESTP? Will either of you be able to understand a word the other is saying?

    Food for thought, not trying to nuke any nascent dreams, but to prevent them from turning into emotionally dyspeptic nightmares which you are too internally invested in, before you knew it, to make the hard wrenching choice to have to pull away.

    (See, my emo-4 side makes a cameo appearance.)

    Your decision to ask INFP gals actually involved with an ESTP guy is probably the best bet, as experience trumps mere theorizing...!

    Have you considered, or already performed, a cursory search on other similar online forums?
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  5. #5
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I'm not doing any "personal research" as if I'm seriously considering an ESTP.
    It IS an odd pairing, but yet not unusual as you'd think. I'm mostly seeing what others think accounts for it. I was pretty sure there have been a few INFPs around here who've dated or been pursued by an ESTP (whether male or female), but they've not shown up to the, er, party thus far.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #6
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I'm not doing any "personal research" as if I'm seriously considering an ESTP.
    It IS an odd pairing, but yet not unusual as you'd think. I'm mostly seeing what others think accounts for it. I was pretty sure there have been a few INFPs around here who've dated or been pursued by an ESTP (whether male or female), but they've not shown up to the, er, party thus far.
    @OrangeAppled --

    Had an odd thought occur to me at work today; somewhat "springboarding" off of your post.

    It's more of a 'thought experiment' than a proposal for anything real, because of the scale and complexity involved; and because *accurately* typing people is more difficult than it sounds...as we know from all the "What's my type" and "Why do so many people claim to be INxx?" threads.

    But let's take a look at things, and keep in mind as we do so the relevant *scale* being used, kind of like zooming in or out on Google Maps street view.

    OK the global level is (I'm being heteronormative here, if you don't like it, propose your own study!)

    1) Boy meets Girl. What is the attraction here? No muss, no fuss, everybody gets it, there are songs and plays and poems and all the rest.

    2) Next level of detail : add MBTI to each.

    Whoa, all the sudden things get REAL messy, real quick. Now you have 16-types of guy, 16-types of girl for a total of 256 combinations!
    And your INFP - ESTP is just *one* possibility.

    3) Next level of detail: Add basic Enneagram. Now we have 256 * 9 (for the guy's possible E-values) * 9 (for the girl's possible E-values) = 256*81 = 20,736 combos.

    4) Next level of detail: Add instinctive stackings (6 combos for him, 6 for her). Multiply by 36. 796,496 choices.

    5) Next level of detail: Add the 9 levels of health for each. Multiply by 81. 60,466,176 combinations.

    6) Last (whew!) and final level: add whether each person is maintaining health, getting healthier, getting less healthy. 9 more combinations. 544,195,584 combinations.

    Hmm, I think not.

    Now, strictly speaking, the actual situation wouldn't be that bad, as some Ennegram/MBTI combinations are rare enough that they can be neglected; I suppose, in fact, it'd be a good start just to take the top 2 enneagrams and top 2 stackings for each MBTI -- so the INFP would be E4 sp/sx, E4 sx/sp, E9 so/sp, E9 sp/so ? and so on.
    And just to do the levels 4 and 5 of health -- the extraordinarily healthy won't need relationship advice, and the extraordinarily UNhealthy won't listen to the advice -- and then throw out the "maintaining, getting healthier, getting less healthy" .

    So we'd be at 256 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 = 256*64 = 16384 combinations.

    The only question is if one could use internet bots to scrape the relationship threads on psychology sites, and grab posts where people disclose relationship issues, and analyze those for trends to fill in the matrix.

    Still daunting, but given a roomful of monkeys and typewriters, we ought to have a matrix constructed in about the same timeframe as it takes them to randomly type in the script for Hamlet ("INFP or not INFP? That is the question...whether 'tis nobler to take arms against of host of self-doubts...")

    Junk food for thought. (Mental Alka-seltzer and/or Pepto-Bismol and/or Nexium not included...)
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Abbey's Avatar
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    I think it depends on the INFP and the ESTP. I will share my experience though. I am an INFP 4w3 416 sx/sp and my best friend is an ESTP 7w6 729 sp/sx. We are very compatible. Like mentioned above, we cover each other's blind spots. Here are some examples...
    1. He is extremely talkative, which I appreciate because I am rather quiet, but I like being around people and listening to them. There are some introverts who are quiet and like being alone, which I do not relate with.
    2. Our judging functions do not clash. IN GENERAL, here are my experiences with the other judging functions...
    - Te: we disagree about EVERYTHING and we are both passionate about our arguments. (I respect this, but could not marry one).
    - Fe: we disagree about most things, but they are usually too nice to bluntly say they disagree, which I find annoying.
    - Fi: I generally agree with them.
    I appreciate his use of Ti, which prefers to understand each side of an issue and find a middle ground. This balances out my instinct to be extreme and passionate, but sometimes ignorant or obstinate.
    3. My Ne and his Se play off one another, we both like puns and wordplay and I actually listen to his incessant rambling and can follow his train of thought and understand what he is saying.
    4. He appeases my desire to be unique (4) by noticing details about me (Se). I appease his desire to be loved (2) by genuinely complimenting him and listening (Fi).
    5. He is very playful and makes me forget about heavy, philosophical issues, which I am easily weighed down by and vice-versa.
    6. For the most part, we are very close (sx), but when we're not together, we are "taking care of ourselves" I guess you could say (sp). This is terrible, but I find it hard to have friends with a social instinctual variant because I get very jealous.
    7. We are neither too warm nor too cold to one another. I find my Fe friends compliment me to the point of it meaning nothing anymore and Te users just don't seem to go into personal things like that very often, they keep their emotional distance.
    8. Overall, we are opposites, but we balance each other out, unlike ESTJs who I have too much in common with (our mutual need for control/having things our own way) or ENFJs, who I always feel like I have a deep, personal connection with until I realize they do that with everyone and don't understand me at all.

    Some negatives are...
    1. Sometimes we are too laid back and can't make decisions.
    I can't think of anymore, but if I do, I will add them.

    I hope this helped

  8. #8
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    I think it could work with two well-developed, mature individuals, regardless of their types.

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