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  1. #51
    It's always something... PuddleRiver's Avatar
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    Signifying nothing, I suppose, but just want you to know that not all ENTJs are disliked. My hubby's ENTJ and he's wonderful. Most people that know him love him. I'm the one that's not liked much. Too aloof, cool and distant and all that jazz.

    If they only knew.

    Edit: And weird, how could I forget weird.
    "In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay one invincible summer."
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    A Christian's life may be the only Bible some people ever read.
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    "The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them" Maya Angelou.
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  2. #52
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Maverick,

    You sound like an ENTJ who prefers positive feedback. Do you give positive feedback? (Sounds odd I know but I've a preference for positive feedback but I tend to give negative feedback due to having a sister and a mother who were negative feedback people.)

    What I'm thinking is that if you are positive feedback then you need to watch for when your nudging for a pat on the head (like many dogs do and like many positive feedback (I'm going to call this PFb or I'm going to get tired of typing) people do) cause that could be seen as manipulating if your taking a leading role.

    As for leading, if your finding yourself put out on a limb then try to lead from within the group. Either that or let someone else lead and be their counsel and best worker. For me this position is natural, I don't like to lead as in be Cpt Kirk but I'd love the first officer role. Basically I was thinking that if you get shit and your normally playing the top dog then be the top dog who helps others to get into the lime light. The idea being is that people can't call you for being a glory hound (these dog analogies are endless!!) if your helping others to grab the glory through your superior organisational abilities.

    Just a thought or two.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #53
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    I think it's a real pity though because the MBTI is geared towards understanding others, yet many types into it seem to dislike ENTJ's. It's as if they judge everything from their own type and consider leading "bad". There's even a kind of emotional revenge/envy - sort of "you may be the leaders but you won't get me to like you".

    ...

    Some people have even tried to make me feel guilty about leading as if it was a "bad" personality trait to have. As if someone who wants to take charge and have power is necessarily evil, because no one should lead and everyone should be equal. That's what I was brought up to believe at least.

    In the end, I've found that *not* leading and introverting ironically makse people follow me much more. In fact, when I don't want people to lead they all seem to come in masses... and I'm like "Nah, I just want to do my own thing" and they end up asking me "please! you're the only one that could do it!"
    I agree, although I don't feel a need to lead, I usually end up doing it. Even when it's going to the movies with my friends or choosing a restaurant to eat at. The more I hang around people aware of MBTI (mostly INs), the less accepted I feel. Most other people, and I suppose that would be Ss, accept my talents for what they are. I feel less judged about what I do naturally. And then when I'd read the MBTI forums (esp. INTPc) it was even worse! I felt like a co-conspirator with the SJ Evil Empire. And it's funny, I'm the type of person that meshes very well within existing social systems, but just because I fit doesn't mean I hold the opinions of the most people. It's kind of subversive in a way, like having an inside man that no one suspects of anything, but no one wants to utilize that resource.

    In the end, all I can do is be myself and I'm not going to be made to feel guilty about being me (Fe and all). So it's actually helping to make more confident in myself and my abilities.

  4. #54
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    I have a friend on MySpace who typed herself as an ENTJ, but she's very artistically inclined and writes some really beautiful and vivid poetry.

  5. #55
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    I really don't have any more problems with ENTJs than I do most other types. In fact, I get along well with TJs in general. I love having the opportunity to actually talk to you Maverick.

    I have a question. Do you let others lead in areas where you are weak? I assume you probably work vigorously to improve perceived weaknesses (that's something I like about NTJs), but in the meantime, can you let others lead? Or do you have to be in charge even if you're not the best-equipped.

    From what you've said, it seems like you are comfortable with hierarchy, so you can deal with the fact that there are people in a superior position, if they have earned it. But at the same time, you'll keep working and going until you're in that position. Is that true? So if I take it out of the workplace. ...What about if you encounter someone with a deeper, more useful understanding of group values and how to deal with people? Do you bow to their wisdom, do you insist on leading, or do you let them lead while learning from them?

  6. #56

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    I have no issues with ENTJs as a whole. I did meet one I disliked, but that'll happen with any type. My friend George is an ENTJ and a fire marshal, and aside from the fact that we do not agree on his polyamory, we're cool.

    I seem to get along well with I/ENTJs. But I've been told that I'm a bitch on many an occasion, so who knows.
    Bringer of mild misfortune and frustration.
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  7. #57
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    I don't always like ENTJs even when I appreciate them. Though mostly I like and appreciate them.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  8. #58
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    So what's the point in telling anyone you're an ENTJ? Are ENTJ's fundamentally disliked, and how to resolve the paradox of a personality that is disliked yet manages to become a leader so often?
    I've learned the real value of leaders, good leaders, and let me tell you, as a proto-monk (heheh) I have to do an awful lot of obeying of lots of different people, and there is NOTHING as awesome as a leader and just a human being, as an ENTJ monk! It's like I just think something, and we only need to make eye contact, and before we know it, we've made it happen.

    I've also had the only happy relationship I ever had in my life with an ENTJ. My business partner is ENTJ and we have great laughs, I've no reservations about him and would trust him with my life - I sometimes worry this doesn't go both ways (he doesn't entirely trust me and sometimes thinks I'm more fickle/unreliable than I really am), and it means a lot to me if I get signs of his respect.

    ENTJ is actually my favourite type, I have a sort of simbiotic relationship with them, and my life and world feels empty without one nearby. I've got along great with every one I've met (granted, it has been said that it's because I'm one of the few who isn't shit-scared of them), and if anything I have a great prejudice towards them because of this! I can't say anything about other people's prejudices or other types, but I know that from my POV, ENTP + ENTJ = world domination*
    <grin>

    Mind you Maverick, that avatar doesn't exactly say 'cuddly and approachable', does it?

    *that is, total pwnage of anything we set out to do together

  9. #59
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Mind you Maverick, that avatar doesn't exactly say 'cuddly and approachable', does it?
    It does for me. That's what I think when I look at it along with a few beat-em-ups, wrastle, scoogy, bite, play... ya know, good furry fun
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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  10. #60
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post

    So what's the point in telling anyone you're an ENTJ? Are ENTJ's fundamentally disliked, and how to resolve the paradox of a personality that is disliked yet manages to become a leader so often?
    Machiavelli taught that it is always better to be feared than loved. Most people are not able to think for themselves and will accept anyone who can take charge and give them what they need in order to keep their head afloat. He also provided several quality arguments for why you're better off making others fear you than love you on your quest for power.

    You dont need for people to genuinely like you in order to empower yourself, you just need for them to pretend that they do, and ENTJs tend to be very proficient at that.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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