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  1. #11
    Senior Member Noel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    So you guys may think that learning about your mbti type was liberating and helped you alot to understand yourself and others better. Hopefully, it might help other people around you understand you better too.

    Well I must say after learning about the ENTJ type for the first time I searched for "ENTJ" and at the time I found a couple of pages complaining about ENTJ's. Some people were complaining about bad experiences in business with arrogant ENTJ's, others were annoyed about how ENTJ's always have to ask tons of questions in class, some thought ENTJ's were just too blunt and insensitive to other people's feelings... Next, everytime I met some people into the MBTI and I told them my type they started to become wary of me. For example, there's this guy who I get on with well, an INFP, who after learning that I was ENTJ systematically refused to do anything I would ask him, became paranoid about me controlling him, and made it downright impossible to do anything. This other ENTP would enjoy playing little tricks on me (in a nice way) to show that he could "get me".

    So what's the point in telling anyone you're an ENTJ? Are ENTJ's fundamentally disliked, and how to resolve the paradox of a personality that is disliked yet manages to become a leader so often?
    Man, he/she's is such a bastard/bitch...yet such a badass.

    Whenever I catch myself saying that about a person, it seems that I've found an ENTJ. I use Bastard/Bitch as a compliment, in the sense that they can rip right through people's bullshit as bluntly as possible with no remorse and explain why your wrong with such precision that you swear you just watched a grammy winning performance of a lawyer open up a can of whoopass on someone.

    ENTJs are great. I know two of them. One is going to Berkeley Law and the other my girlfriend. I think ENTJs are stereotyped just as bad as INFPs e.g. ENTJs are incapable of caring for people as INFPs have to be overly emotionally sensitive. The ability to effectively facilitate and communicate with people their ideas into a logical, yet organized system, at least to me, is something I wish I could do. ENXJs are like the TMNT Leonardo: leads the turtles, follows splinter's plan, acts methodically, etc. Everyone hates the "Leonardo" of the group of friends, but still plays a vital role in the makeup of the group i.e. all species play a unique role, yet a part of a much larger system (nature).

    I guess I've always had a thing for XNTJs in general. I can see such emotional potential under their layers; XNTP's emotions is to being shackled in prison, as XNTJ's emotions is to the Iron Maiden or XNTPs are to heavy chainmail/light plate as XNTJs are to Full Plate dual wielding two Tower Shields. They are there, just heavily concealed even more so than XNTPs.

    I think you define yourself through actions rather than words. I can say I'm an INFP to an, say, NT and I know that certain preconceptions will arise just from that alone. I'm pretty sure everyone does that, we're human. If someone alone thinks your "unworthy" from type alone, fuck 'em. I guess that's the real beauty of friendship: you are born without any of them and for that reason, friendship should be sacred.

  2. #12
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    I think it's a real pity though because the MBTI is geared towards understanding others, yet many types into it seem to dislike ENTJ's. It's as if they judge everything from their own type and consider leading "bad". There's even a kind of emotional revenge/envy - sort of "you may be the leaders but you won't get me to like you".
    Personally I don't have a problem with leadership per se. It helps get things done. I just have a problem when people need to be the leader in everything - even things they aren't the best qualified to lead. The ENTJs I know tend to be like this. It's particularly irksome in a friendship. There should be a lot of give and take. I just don't think it's especially healthy to be a subordinate in a friendship. Like PTG said, no-one wants a leader in a friendship. Especially when the issue doesn't seem to be primarily about getting stuff done, but rather about gaining control. Every interaction turns into a wrestle for ascendancy. That's not fun when it's a consistent pattern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    I was born my type and didn't choose the fact that being independent and in charge of something would be one of my core needs.
    I have no problem with this. It's when someone needs to be in charge of just about everything that I start to have a problem with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Just as much as you need emotional connection, I need to be in charge.
    *skin crawls*

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    But anyway your answer corresponds to what people do in relationships with me. They will constantly try do "deny" me the leadership position. There's an attitude that comes from resentment, which I can understand, but I find it a bit annoying that people take pleasure out of it. It's almost... perverse and evil. Because they are doing it intentionally and "playing games" whereas my style is as natural as breathing. Relationships with others might end up being a game of hide and seek. "Look, you can lead me!", "Now, you can't anymore!", "You're angry? Here, lead me again", "You're in a good mood? You can't lead me anymore".
    I guess they might be trying to draw boundaries for you. And I'm sure if you've had anything to do with another ENTJ (I'd pay to watch that for a day) you'd realize that it is pretty funny to watch the reaction of an ENTJ being thwarted in his/her relentless quest for control. They just will not give up. The resulting stratagems are endless and sometimes comical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Some people have even tried to make me feel guilty about leading as if it was a "bad" personality trait to have. As if someone who wants to take charge and have power is necessarily evil, because no one should lead and everyone should be equal. That's what I was brought up to believe at least.
    Yeah, Australia is probably one of the most egalitarian nations on earth. Hell for ENTJs I suspect. Which doesn't mean we don't need leadership as much as anyone else, it just means that leaders have to be pretty careful in their leadership style. We have a major and well-documented case of the tall poppy syndrome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    In the end, I've found that *not* leading and introverting ironically makse people follow me much more. In fact, when I don't want people to lead they all seem to come in masses... and I'm like "Nah, I just want to do my own thing" and they end up asking me "please! you're the only one that could do it!"
    People often want to be led, but rarely want to be overtly led (especially guys). Which is why INTJs often make deceptively popular leaders.

  3. #13
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    When these MBTI stereotypes get really negative, it just reveals people's deep down fears about others in general. It's never fun to have someone disappoint or betray you, so people can use MBTI as a way to bypass ever being tricked into trusting the wrong person. Stereotypes drive me absolutely crazy. They are irrational and nasty. They combine all the worst effects of refusal to think or be considerate of feelings. Pure, unadulterated pooeyness.

    I have nothing against ENTJs. I agree with Booyalab about preferring competency over popularity in an employer. To me ENTJs are the NTs I'm least familiar with, so I am curious about them. IMO ENTJs are a rather important type because they have the visionary, analytical, structured approach that is outgoing. It sounds like a very effective personality. Even if they are aggressive, it sounds like they could generally be reasoned with, a very important trait.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #14
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    I don't know any ENTJs, but based on their preferences, I think this type is the ideal movie director due to their Te dominant function driven to make things happen in the outer world followed by an Ni auxiliary function that has a visionary outlook.

    I don't understand why the ENTJ is always the military leader, CEO or dictator. I think judging by their functions, they are just as inclined as other iNtuitives to be involved in the arts and so forth.

  5. #15
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    People are always free to do what they want.
    Yes but when the ultimatum is something along the lines of "follow my lead or I won't be your friend," people tend to feel rather resistant, wether the ultimatum is spoken or unspoken, intentional or not.

    I can tell you right now, I don't react well to ultimatums.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  6. #16
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Yes but when the ultimatum is something along the lines of "follow my lead or I won't be your friend," people tend to feel rather resistant, wether the ultimatum is spoken or unspoken, intentional or not.
    I think I have known ENTJs! I remember in pre-school, my friend Donny saying just that to me. That nasty, little ENTJ! :steam:
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #17
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I think I have known ENTJs! I remember in pre-school, my friend Donny saying just that to me. That nasty, little ENTJ! :steam:
    Like I said, maturity makes all the difference in an ENTJ, and I think that holds true for all types.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  8. #18
    Senior Member logan235711's Avatar
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    hey! Maverick!!
    I don't hate ENTJs! but then again...I don't know any, so I can't hate any...but anyways! If you want, we can be friends I don't think I'll mind if you want to be in charge--but I plan on asking LLOOOTTTTSSSSSSSS of questions

    -logan

  9. #19
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logan235711 View Post
    I don't think I'll mind if you want to be in charge
    Dude that's it. That's the last straw. I revoke your INTJ license.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    I don't think that's a paradox at all. In workplace settings, I've found that the worst bosses are usually the ones that are more concerned with being popular than being competent.
    Yeah I have to agree on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zergling View Post
    Trying to be in charge puts you above other people, and is seem as an attempt to take power from them, which is unexected in friendships, tends to wear them down from the under the surface competetion it can cause, and threatening in a certain amount. It's much more threatening than most of the other stereotypical behaviors of of different MBTI types (except perhaps stereotypical ESTP behaviors).
    That's a fair point. It's a difficult tendency to eliminate in oneself though, because it happens automatically even when you don't want to or are putting in a great deal of effort to come off as equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    I used to be best friends with an ENTJ. We got along fine mostly because I didn't have a problem following his lead. I didn't find him controlling, I figured he was just a natural leader. The only thing that annoyed me was how he wouldn't go along with it when I had something that I specifically wanted to do. Other than that, I seemed to be the only person who he would forego his own judgement for or take instruction from, but that was rare, and it usually only happened either when I made it clear that he had made me extremely angry or when I was trying to be the voice of reason when it came to the way he treated other people.
    Funny you say that, I tend to get along well with ENFJ's and they don't mind my behavior. They kind of look at me from a distance as a Big Kid who is better left to his business of organizing things. I think it's always necessary to take into account other people's needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    Whenever I catch myself saying that about a person, it seems that I've found an ENTJ. I use Bastard/Bitch as a compliment, in the sense that they can rip right through people's bullshit as bluntly as possible with no remorse and explain why your wrong with such precision that you swear you just watched a grammy winning performance of a lawyer open up a can of whoopass on someone.

    ENTJs are great. I know two of them. One is going to Berkeley Law and the other my girlfriend. I think ENTJs are stereotyped just as bad as INFPs e.g. ENTJs are incapable of caring for people as INFPs have to be overly emotionally sensitive. The ability to effectively facilitate and communicate with people their ideas into a logical, yet organized system, at least to me, is something I wish I could do. ENXJs are like the TMNT Leonardo: leads the turtles, follows splinter's plan, acts methodically, etc. Everyone hates the "Leonardo" of the group of friends, but still plays a vital role in the makeup of the group i.e. all species play a unique role, yet a part of a much larger system (nature).

    I guess I've always had a thing for XNTJs in general. I can see such emotional potential under their layers; XNTP's emotions is to being shackled in prison, as XNTJ's emotions is to the Iron Maiden or XNTPs are to heavy chainmail/light plate as XNTJs are to Full Plate dual wielding two Tower Shields. They are there, just heavily concealed even more so than XNTPs.

    I think you define yourself through actions rather than words. I can say I'm an INFP to an, say, NT and I know that certain preconceptions will arise just from that alone. I'm pretty sure everyone does that, we're human. If someone alone thinks your "unworthy" from type alone, fuck 'em. I guess that's the real beauty of friendship: you are born without any of them and for that reason, friendship should be sacred.
    People around me usually appreciate that ability also It's true that everyone hates the "Leonardo" in a group of friends. So what I usually do socially is not lead and take a serious backseat... then I find that people naturally ask me what to do.

    Of course you're right about the last point, but considering the overwhelming apprehension people have about ENTJ's, I think I'm better off simply not discussing the MBTI with people IRL.

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